The Pharmacy Learner

This episode of the Pharmacy Quality Solutions (PQS) Quality Corner Show features host Nick Dorich and returning guest Jesse McCullough, founder of Keystone Pharmacy Insights. Together, they reflect on the evolving landscape of pharmacy in 2025, focusing on the critical need for continuous learning and interpersonal leadership. 

The discussion centers on the idea that in a rapidly changing healthcare environment, staying stagnant is equivalent to falling behind. Key takeaways cover: The Power of Personal Connection, The Learner’s Mindset, A New Definition of Competition, and Clinical Empathy

How to contact Jesse McCullough and Keystone Insights:

LinkedIn

Facebook

Skool

Chapters

• 1:58 Introduction
• 4:04 Soft Skills
• 8:08 Pharmacy Leaders in 2025
• 15:19 Hope and Optimism
• 19:39 Learners vs the Learned
• 25:00 2026 Growth Plans
• 31:13 Jesse McCullough Contact and Social Sites
• 34:46 Closing

Transcript

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The quote’s attributed to a guy by the name of Eric Hoffer

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(HOFFER) and you know, I love the quote,

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but I give this other variation of it.

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Is that what got you here won't get you there,

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right?

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Like, you know, when that patient comes in and they say, hey,

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diagnosed with type two diabetes, this isn't where I want to be.

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Well, you know what?

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What you've learned so far is what got you here.

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And if you want to get

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to a different place, you want to learn some different things.

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Right now that that applies from a, you know, this is as close

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as I want to get to clinical, in our conversation.

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But that applies in, in other directions as well.

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Right?

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It applies that, hey, if you want your business to get better,

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you need to be continuing to learn, right?

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You need to be learning how to leverage this or how to leverage that.

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You need you need to be able to, make those adjustments and,

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and make those informed adjustments

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and not just do what everybody else is doing.

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Right.

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And I think that's I mean, and I think that's an observation

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that we can make for 2025 is that there was,

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you know, this is the way we've always done it.

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This is the way we've always done it.

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And that does that did not serve everybody well.

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Right.

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So there's, you know, from that I take the invitation

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that, hey, you need to have a plan to learn.

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You need to have a plan to grow.

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Welcome to the Pharmacy

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Quality Solutions Quality Corner Show.

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Buckle up and put your thinking cap on.

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The Quality Corner Show starts now.

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Quality Corner Show listeners,

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welcome to the PQS podcast where we focus on medication use, quality improvement,

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and how we can utilize pharmacists to improve patient health outcomes.

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I'm your host, Nick Dorich.

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Now, today's episode is actually an annual or seasonal

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tradition for us here at the PQS Show.

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And it's one that requires us to bring back a returning guest

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and a returning host to the Quality Corner Show.

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So we're going to jump right into it for today.

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I'm going to introduce, bring in my friend,

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former co-host of the Quality Corner Show as well.

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Jesse McCullough.

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Jesse. Welcome. Seasons Greetings to you.

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How are you today?

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Seasons Greetings to you as well, Nick.

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I am well and it is so good to be back.

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You know, as you as you're doing that introduction, I, I started to do the math.

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We started this...

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was it in 2019?

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I think it was 2019. Yeah.

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Wow. And here, here we are.

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Here we are. And,

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first, congratulations on keeping this going.

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You know, I'm sure that it is.

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It is not an easy thing.

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I remember when you and I sat down and we sketched out the first,

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I don't know, six, eight, ten episodes.

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I don't know what your thought process was, but I think my thought process was

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we would probably have an endpoint,

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to it, you know, and here you are 6 or 7 years later.

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You know, keep keeping after it.

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So, so good for you.

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And thank you for the service that you do

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for pharmacists, in this quality space.

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Yeah, we have a lot to share.

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And I think this is going to be someone we're going to get into it

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as the theme of the episode, in a way, but there's always something new to learn.

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The only constant is change, right?

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So especially for us as a show and for us at PQS,

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we look at this, we're in the health care quality space.

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There's always a way to get better at what we do.

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That's just a human, that's just a fact of human nature.

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So that may be something I'm not as in-tune as.

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I used to be just.

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And I'm sure you may have the same experience.

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We're not as up to date on our clinical knowledge and there's courses on that.

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But there are a lot of things I think we like to focus on with this show

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that go towards process, how we're delivering care,

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how we're preparing our team, and how we're utilizing

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and training what is often described as those soft skills.

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But I I've never like that terminology myself, the soft skills,

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because it's really the things that are actually most important. It's

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how you communicate with your coworkers, with your peers, with your bosses.

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And then ultimately, for those of us that are in health care, most importantly,

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the patients, the people that we're really serving.

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So to me, soft sounds negative or a little flimsy,

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and that's really not the intent we those or anything, those are the skills

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we most want to focus on and give people a pathway forward.

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Something new to consider. So your thoughts?

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Well, yeah.

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It's very much the interpersonal skills, right.

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Like how do you connect, how do you relate.?

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How do you leverage people?

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How do you how do you help them take a step

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forward is really what it comes down to.

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You know, there's, you know, in my head, I sort of

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look at it as clinical and non clinical skills.

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And, you know,

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and just full disclaimer here in the early going, and just to echo

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what Nick said, you do not want to take any clinical advice from me, right?

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Right.

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You know, you know, that's that's that's not the world that I live in.

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Different show. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like,

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there's other people who have, forgotten more clinically than I've ever known.

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Right?

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But, you know, it was getting involved in, in, you know,

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just these perform in performance and quality and all those things.

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Now, 18 years ago, something like that.

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And, you know, that really stretched the way that I thought.

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And then you had to look at it.

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Okay. Well, how do you do this?

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And I know there was a big part of my, my early going in this space,

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which was very much process focused, but, like, there's, there's actually,

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you know, the special seasoning that you put on process,

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you know, it's like the sizzle that you put on the steak, I guess.

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Right.

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That can can really help you.

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You do that because you can have excellent processes but still struggle.

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And, you can have excellent systems and they're not used.

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And that was that was my experience, you know, going back to 2010.

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And so, it's very it has been very much an emphasis on

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how do you how do you get a little bit deeper,

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how do you how do you become a little more sticky?

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How do you, increase your influence, with people to,

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to make that positive impact?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So just at the end of, today, we'll talk about

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we'll give you a chance to shout out Keystone Pharmacy Insights.

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You know, where and where people can find you and more information on that,

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your LinkedIn and your Facebook, community, things like that.

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But we'll go ahead and get into our conversation for today.

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As we've already just in our introduction, started to dive into that.

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And what we want to talk about is our inflection point in pharmacy and in

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and in health care, and how we continue to evolve and how we continue to change.

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I, I've been in this profession now as a pharmacist

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or someone that graduated from pharmacy school for almost 15 years.

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Jess, you and I have known each other longer than that.

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And we'll just keep it at that.

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That's code that says that says I'm older, a much older.

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But that's the fancy code that we, Yeah.

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And I feel like in pharmacy, each and every year we hit a point

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where it's never been a more difficult year in pharmacy.

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And yet this profession continues to persevere.

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It continues to change, and it continues to evolve.

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And I've had this conversation with many a pharmacist,

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but with many mentors, with many personal friends, with many,

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many family members that work in different professions, that are not at all

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in health care and these issues or these items that we're facing,

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these changes that happen to be occurring,

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in the market that we're in and how we're operating

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pharmacy and health care are not the only industry

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facing these kind of challenges year in and year out.

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So I always like to take it as an opportunity to say, what do we hear?

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What do others hear?

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What can we learn from one another? What can we consider?

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So just with that as our background, I've got a couple things in mind

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that I want to start as far as our conversation and our discussion.

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But let's start with you.

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You know, your experience working, mentoring, leading pharmacy

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team leaders in 2025, what have you learned?

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What have you seen? What comes first of mind for you?

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I guess, I would start with this

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and I would say that this is a learning right.

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It's a continuous process.

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I wish I could tell you that I have this down pat,

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but I would tell you that, and I've thought this, I think

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pretty much at the end of each year for the last several years.

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But the need for more

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and better leaders in pharmacy has never been greater.

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It's never been greater.

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Like, you know, like whenever I started down this path, it was like, okay.

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And you know, you start to you start to make an impact.

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And as you start to make that impact, you see that, oh, there's

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there's actually more, you know,

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and it's, it's to

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your previous comment, like the environment

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continues to change and we need to be ready for that.

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We need to have an understanding of that.

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We need to be mobile and flexible and and,

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you know, ready to adjust and adapt and to move forward.

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One of my mentors actually,

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uses an analogy like you're trying

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to, cross, a stream or a river, right?

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There's a current that's pushing you downstream.

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And so if you just if you look directly across the stream

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and you say, I want to go from here, you know, directly to the other side,

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if you just start going straight that that current is going to push you downstream.

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And so you need to have, you know, a bit of an upstream angle

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that as you go across it, it allows you to hit there.

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And I would say that that has, that has been highlighted and underscored

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and italicized and boldfaced, to, to me this year.

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And, you know, it's happened on the most small or,

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or the smallest of level, with conversations with pharmacists

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around, you know, issues that they have with coworkers.

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People on their team.

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And, you know, how do I how do I get so I can't get somebody to do this.

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And, you know, oftentimes I feel like people are looking for my blessing

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to go fire somebody.

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And we'll talk more about that, I'm sure.

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But then you, you see it on some of the largest levels, right,

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with, with, you know, chains with hundreds and hundreds of stores

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ceasing operations and then the impact that that has and, you know,

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that doesn't happen in a vacuum

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or, you know, that that impact then affects all sorts

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of neighboring stores and so on and so forth, and, you know,

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this is something I was I was thinking about this, earlier today

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about how, one of the things that

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it's easy to lose sight of,

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is that our competition

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in pharmacy, in health care,

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our competition is poor health,

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right? Our comp..

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now, we we get sideways on that very, very quickly.

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We become oh, our competition is the other pharmacy down the street.

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Our competition is the PBM or the health plan.

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Our competition is fill in the blank. Are,

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you know, our competition is,

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you know, online pill mills.

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I mean, you make it up, right?

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But the fact of the matter is, is that there is so much need out there,

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that our focus has to be on

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how do we help the people in front of us and deliver such a positive result?

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Yeah, it's a great call, Jesse, because I think every interaction

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that we have individuals, but professionals as well, right?

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Just think of yourself as the individual,

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whether it's with your family, with your friends,

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whether it's something that's professional,

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whether it's something that spiritual, you're having that interaction

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and it doesn't I don't mean to make it out as being transactional as a one

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plus one equals two or a one minus one get you back to a net zero

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doesn't need to be that way.

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But every interaction needs to be something that's positive.

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Right. And I think that is a key part to healthcare.

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When what we are doing, when we are working with patients,

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if the patient is not seeing the value of that,

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they're not going to come and see us as the provider.

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Right?

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Patients do have or patients should certainly have

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a choice in the healthcare provider that that they are seeing. And

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every interaction with a patient that we are having

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should be going to understand what it is that they're trying to achieve.

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Are we helping them achieve that goal?

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Part of it will be coaching them as well.

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Sometimes the, you know, the patient may I think we all have the experience

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where, we, we want to go on the side quest,

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if you will, or there's something here that this is temporary, but long term,

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what do we want to get to. Right.

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So and having different levels of goals is important right.

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For one patient it may be maybe a patient with diabetes where it's

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hey I want to be a patient with type two diabetes specifically in this example.

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Right where I may start off with where, hey,

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I want to the goal, maybe I want to get off these medications.

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I don't want to be I don't want to be utilizing medications any longer.

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Part of that action plan might be well, hey, in order to help you do that, yes,

00:13:46:02 - 00:13:47:08
you're gonna have to exercise and diet, right?

00:13:47:08 - 00:13:48:19
But you know what also would help?

00:13:48:19 - 00:13:51:07
Taking these medications on a regular routine basis.

00:13:51:07 - 00:13:55:21
The more you're utilizing them properly, and as long as we're managing that,

00:13:56:04 - 00:13:59:02
think we can afford it, no side effects, etc.

00:13:59:02 - 00:14:02:15
in conjunction with those other lifestyle changes that might get us to that goal.

00:14:02:15 - 00:14:07:00
So there's a little part of this where I think your call out there, Jess, is,

00:14:07:15 - 00:14:11:15
is one of the most meaningful, you know, revelations that we can go back to.

00:14:11:15 - 00:14:17:03
And, hey, who are we serving with this both from the type of person and our

00:14:17:09 - 00:14:19:24
what we want to do at our core, but then the business aspect,

00:14:19:24 - 00:14:22:04
how are we operating in that sense? You know.

00:14:22:04 - 00:14:22:23
Yeah.

00:14:22:23 - 00:14:26:14
Yeah, I that became real apparent to me.

00:14:26:22 - 00:14:29:22
I don't know if you and I had this conversation or not.

00:14:30:05 - 00:14:33:22
But, my brother had some health issues

00:14:34:06 - 00:14:36:12
over the course of the and I did I share the story with you.

00:14:36:12 - 00:14:37:18
I feel like I did, yeah.

00:14:37:18 - 00:14:41:22
But, you know, I was with my brother in the ER.

00:14:42:12 - 00:14:43:05
I think

00:14:44:20 - 00:14:46:00
my brother was in the E.R.

00:14:46:00 - 00:14:49:15
four times in, like 11 days. Right.

00:14:49:15 - 00:14:54:16
And you know, it was a very frustrating, I think, as I was with him the last time.

00:14:55:00 - 00:14:57:02
But,

00:14:57:02 - 00:15:01:17
you know, it was, he was, he was seeking, you know, identification

00:15:01:17 - 00:15:05:14
and resolution or, you know, at least a diagnosis of what the issue was

00:15:06:01 - 00:15:08:13
and was getting nowhere. Right.

00:15:08:13 - 00:15:12:10
And it was it was a very challenging, it was a very challenging thing

00:15:12:10 - 00:15:15:10
to see in it, you know, and it's interesting that

00:15:15:15 - 00:15:17:17
observing that. Right.

00:15:17:17 - 00:15:23:04
And to recognize that his scenario, while I, I hope that it is

00:15:23:06 - 00:15:26:05
the is the exception to the rule,

00:15:26:05 - 00:15:29:06
my guess is, is that it's a little more common, right?

00:15:29:06 - 00:15:32:08
My guess is, is that it's a little more common for people out there.

00:15:32:17 - 00:15:35:08
And, you know, especially in the world of pharmacy, people

00:15:35:08 - 00:15:39:05
come to us when their lives are upside down,

00:15:40:05 - 00:15:40:12
right?

00:15:40:12 - 00:15:45:01
We get involved when people's lives are upside down.

00:15:45:11 - 00:15:48:11
And, you know, I think one of the biggest things that we can,

00:15:48:17 - 00:15:52:15
that we can serve people is hope and optimism,

00:15:52:21 - 00:15:55:18
you know, to your example of,

00:15:55:18 - 00:15:58:18
of the type two diabetic patient.

00:15:58:22 - 00:16:03:08
I remember, I remember one day I was working in Conneaut

00:16:03:08 - 00:16:08:10
Lake, Pennsylvania, and pharmacy opened at 8 a.m.

00:16:08:10 - 00:16:11:01
and it was it was like ten minutes after eight.

00:16:11:01 - 00:16:15:16
And a guy comes in and he says to me, well, I bet you know, I'm why I'm here.

00:16:15:16 - 00:16:18:02
And I, I have no clue why you're here.

00:16:18:02 - 00:16:18:18
All right.

00:16:18:18 - 00:16:21:24
I don't know, he's like, I just came from the doctor and

00:16:22:12 - 00:16:25:21
he gave me his prescription and his prescription was for a blood

00:16:25:21 - 00:16:30:11
pressure medicine, and and, you know, he said, how long?

00:16:30:15 - 00:16:32:11
How long am I going to take this?

00:16:32:11 - 00:16:33:13
And you know what?

00:16:33:13 - 00:16:36:19
He you know, I didn't see it back then.

00:16:37:02 - 00:16:39:16
I can see it much more clearly now.

00:16:39:16 - 00:16:43:00
But what he was looking for, he was looking for some encouragement.

00:16:43:00 - 00:16:44:13
He was looking for some optimism.

00:16:44:13 - 00:16:48:10
He was looking for some hope, with what was going on.

00:16:48:20 - 00:16:52:02
And, you know, because he didn't want to take it the rest of his life.

00:16:52:15 - 00:16:55:15
I mean, you can tell that by the question that's asked.

00:16:55:23 - 00:16:58:16
And, you know, I took one look at the prescription and

00:16:58:16 - 00:17:01:16
I just said, he will probably take this the rest of your life,

00:17:01:16 - 00:17:05:17
and I look back and I say, wow, could I have been

00:17:06:20 - 00:17:08:24
this this is why I don't do clinical things, folks.

00:17:08:24 - 00:17:09:21
Right.

00:17:09:21 - 00:17:14:04
You know, I look back and I say, here's a guy that was looking for some hope.

00:17:14:04 - 00:17:15:10
He was looking for some encouragement.

00:17:15:10 - 00:17:18:19
He was looking for some, you know, looking for some optimism.

00:17:19:00 - 00:17:22:23
And, you know, I just I poured water all over that fire

00:17:23:08 - 00:17:27:18
and, really missed an opportunity, to better collaborate

00:17:27:18 - 00:17:30:19
with, with a patient to help move them in the right direction.

00:17:31:03 - 00:17:33:17
And, it was hard to see back then.

00:17:33:17 - 00:17:37:12
Now, I think we all know that there's a huge portion of patients

00:17:37:12 - 00:17:40:18
that the rest of your life is the correct answer.

00:17:40:24 - 00:17:42:20
Or is is the real answer.

00:17:42:20 - 00:17:46:03
But, like, you know, the other part of it is, is that,

00:17:47:04 - 00:17:49:09
you know, you have to keep them engaged.

00:17:49:09 - 00:17:50:17
You have to keep them involved.

00:17:50:17 - 00:17:53:17
You have to keep them, you know, moving forward

00:17:53:22 - 00:17:56:22
and, making those adjustments so that they don't have,

00:17:56:22 - 00:18:00:24
so that their quality of life can, can be maintained for as long as we can.

00:18:01:11 - 00:18:04:19
And so thinking on this topic, Jesse,

00:18:04:19 - 00:18:10:15
and when we were preparing for this, you sent me and I'll share it

00:18:10:15 - 00:18:14:03
now if, if that's okay with you, please do let me a quote here.

00:18:14:03 - 00:18:15:20
And I think this really resonates.

00:18:15:20 - 00:18:17:23
So in the message that we want to try to get across.

00:18:17:23 - 00:18:22:16
So the quote, “In times of change, learners inherit the earth

00:18:22:21 - 00:18:25:18
while the learned find themselves beautifully

00:18:25:18 - 00:18:28:24
equipped, did to deal with a world that no longer exists.”

00:18:30:04 - 00:18:32:18
So that part of it, I think, really speaks

00:18:32:18 - 00:18:37:07
poetically to what we're hoping to share as a message or as an idea.

00:18:37:15 - 00:18:41:06
And I think just you know, in your example here,

00:18:41:13 - 00:18:45:04
for yours, the patient trying to figure out what,

00:18:45:11 - 00:18:48:11
what they're trying to do,

00:18:48:21 - 00:18:51:22
what we want to do or how we want to change that situation,

00:18:52:17 - 00:18:57:10
is how we can help the patient learn to what they should or could expect or, hey,

00:18:57:10 - 00:18:59:10
they don't want to take the medication for the rest of your life.

00:18:59:10 - 00:19:00:22
That's okay.

00:19:00:22 - 00:19:02:24
And we can sympathize.

00:19:02:24 - 00:19:05:15
We can empathize with them on those parts of it.

00:19:05:15 - 00:19:08:22
However, we can help them learn and understand at the same time

00:19:09:01 - 00:19:11:21
that, you know, this is going to be a chronic disease,

00:19:11:21 - 00:19:13:23
a chronic something you have to deal with the rest of your life.

00:19:13:23 - 00:19:17:07
If we're working together, what how can we,

00:19:17:07 - 00:19:20:19
as the pharmacy staff, help you to maximize

00:19:21:05 - 00:19:26:07
the use of the medication to minimize any other detrimental effects?

00:19:26:07 - 00:19:27:04
What do we want to do?

00:19:27:04 - 00:19:30:04
What do we want to be achieving together for that purpose?

00:19:30:05 - 00:19:33:19
And that's where I think the difference, as the quote goes here

00:19:33:21 - 00:19:37:20
for, the, the learn, the learning goes to

00:19:38:01 - 00:19:40:03
what's that next question, what's that next part?

00:19:40:03 - 00:19:43:20
And I think the important aspect of this is the tense

00:19:44:06 - 00:19:47:06
when we talk about it, the learners versus the learned.

00:19:47:16 - 00:19:49:03
Learned is only past tense.

00:19:49:03 - 00:19:53:14
And our knowledge is only as current as what it is today.

00:19:53:20 - 00:19:57:10
So are you committed to knowing everything for this instance,

00:19:57:10 - 00:20:01:02
or are you committed to what will be continued learning, moving forward?

00:20:01:09 - 00:20:04:12
Right. You know, I look at that and

00:20:05:23 - 00:20:06:05
I mean,

00:20:06:05 - 00:20:09:10
that's the call to move forward, right?

00:20:09:10 - 00:20:12:00
You know, I use a slightly different phrase.

00:20:12:00 - 00:20:12:23
I love this quote.

00:20:12:23 - 00:20:13:22
If anybody

00:20:13:22 - 00:20:17:09
is looking for The quote’s attributed to a guy by the name of Eric Hoffer

00:20:17:22 - 00:20:22:09
(HOFFER) and you know, I love the quote,

00:20:22:15 - 00:20:25:21
but I give this other variation of it.

00:20:25:21 - 00:20:28:21
Is that what got you here won't get you there,

00:20:29:14 - 00:20:29:24
right?

00:20:29:24 - 00:20:34:21
Like, you know, when that patient comes in and they say, hey,

00:20:34:21 - 00:20:39:14
diagnosed with type two diabetes, this isn't where I want to be.

00:20:40:02 - 00:20:41:15
Well, you know what?

00:20:41:15 - 00:20:44:15
What you've learned so far is what got you here.

00:20:46:06 - 00:20:47:08
And if you want to get

00:20:47:08 - 00:20:50:08
to a different place, you want to learn some different things.

00:20:50:09 - 00:20:53:11
Right now that that applies from a, you know, this is as close

00:20:53:11 - 00:20:56:11
as I want to get to clinical, in our conversation.

00:20:56:17 - 00:20:59:24
But that applies in, in other directions as well.

00:21:00:13 - 00:21:00:22
Right?

00:21:00:22 - 00:21:04:13
It applies that, hey, if you want your business to get better,

00:21:04:24 - 00:21:08:17
you need to be continuing to learn, right?

00:21:08:17 - 00:21:12:11
You need to be learning how to leverage this or how to leverage that.

00:21:12:11 - 00:21:17:23
You need you need to be able to, make those adjustments and,

00:21:17:23 - 00:21:21:01
and make those informed adjustments

00:21:21:12 - 00:21:24:21
and not just do what everybody else is doing.

00:21:25:11 - 00:21:25:20
Right.

00:21:25:20 - 00:21:28:17
And I think that's I mean, and I think that's an observation

00:21:28:17 - 00:21:32:18
that we can make for 2025 is that there was,

00:21:33:01 - 00:21:36:24
you know, this is the way we've always done it.

00:21:37:21 - 00:21:39:04
This is the way we've always done it.

00:21:39:04 - 00:21:42:01
And that does that did not serve everybody well.

00:21:43:08 - 00:21:43:16
Right.

00:21:43:16 - 00:21:48:13
So there's, you know, from that I take the invitation

00:21:49:17 - 00:21:53:20
that, hey, you need to have a plan to learn.

00:21:53:20 - 00:21:55:24
You need to have a plan to grow.

00:21:55:24 - 00:21:58:20
And I'll let you in on the secret,

00:21:58:20 - 00:22:02:13
especially for your situation, viewer or listener.

00:22:03:22 - 00:22:06:21
It's not just for you.

00:22:06:21 - 00:22:07:06
Right?

00:22:07:06 - 00:22:11:17
It's it needs to go for everybody on your team as well.

00:22:11:17 - 00:22:14:24
You need to include them in, you know, there's

00:22:15:14 - 00:22:18:13
there's been all those scenarios where, you know,

00:22:18:13 - 00:22:21:23
maybe somebody goes to a conference and then they come back

00:22:21:23 - 00:22:24:06
and they're all fired up, and what do they find?

00:22:24:06 - 00:22:29:04
They find a lot of inertia that they're fighting against.

00:22:29:16 - 00:22:33:10
And, you know, a lot of times things don't change.

00:22:33:22 - 00:22:38:01
And so, you know, I think the real invitation is that

00:22:38:01 - 00:22:42:14
the growth plan needs to be for you, and you need to be bringing people.

00:22:42:14 - 00:22:45:20
And maybe it's not everybody, but it's a few people.

00:22:46:00 - 00:22:49:10
It's enough to help get the, the wheels moving.

00:22:49:10 - 00:22:52:21
It's and that's especially helpful whenever you have people that are,

00:22:52:24 - 00:22:54:16
that are learning and growing and,

00:22:54:16 - 00:22:58:02
and they actually can see things differently than you,

00:22:58:21 - 00:23:01:21
that they can see things that you don't see.

00:23:01:21 - 00:23:04:00
So, to,

00:23:05:01 - 00:23:07:04
just pull the veil back here a little bit.

00:23:07:04 - 00:23:08:19
And if you've listened

00:23:08:19 - 00:23:12:11
to other interviews or other conversations that Nick and I have had over the years,

00:23:12:16 - 00:23:15:07
we always reference that we're going to get together

00:23:15:07 - 00:23:18:10
and we're going to do a podcast about Spiderman or something like that.

00:23:18:10 - 00:23:19:01
Right.

00:23:19:01 - 00:23:23:11
And, before we hit record, we were talking about, a new movie

00:23:23:11 - 00:23:28:09
trailer that came out right, and very, very short, blah, blah, blah.

00:23:29:09 - 00:23:31:20
If Nick and I watched that, what sticks out to

00:23:31:20 - 00:23:34:20
Nick is not necessarily the same thing that sticks out to me,

00:23:35:09 - 00:23:37:09
right? That's just the way in.

00:23:37:09 - 00:23:39:22
And that's not a bad thing.

00:23:39:22 - 00:23:43:01
That's actually a really good thing, because between

00:23:43:07 - 00:23:47:02
the two of us, you know, it enriches the experience.

00:23:47:15 - 00:23:50:13
And, you know, it gives better,

00:23:50:13 - 00:23:53:09
it gives more handles to grab ahold of.

00:23:53:09 - 00:23:57:22
It gives it gives more imagination to the situation.

00:23:58:05 - 00:24:01:23
So I, you know, I think that's, that's really a good it's

00:24:01:23 - 00:24:05:20
really a good thing, to, to be looking at out there as, hey, how do you

00:24:06:04 - 00:24:09:07
how do you create an environment where you grow

00:24:09:19 - 00:24:14:01
and, you know, and this is, this is something that, you know, I,

00:24:14:05 - 00:24:17:15
I would tell you that I've known, but it's still something that I continue to learn

00:24:17:24 - 00:24:20:15
is that you got to keep doing it.

00:24:20:15 - 00:24:23:19
It's not though, every once that you know,

00:24:23:19 - 00:24:27:18
one of those old, one of those original, podcasts that we did.

00:24:27:18 - 00:24:30:11
Nick was around, process.

00:24:30:11 - 00:24:32:07
You know, process says it's not a day.

00:24:32:07 - 00:24:33:19
It's a daily thing.

00:24:33:19 - 00:24:34:02
Right?

00:24:34:02 - 00:24:35:20
You know, it's not like, oh, today,

00:24:35:20 - 00:24:37:20
today's the day we're going to improve our quality.

00:24:37:20 - 00:24:40:06
Right? Well, it doesn't happen that way.

00:24:40:06 - 00:24:44:10
Our our our quality will improve when we work on it every day.

00:24:44:20 - 00:24:48:05
And I think that's, that's something that,

00:24:48:24 - 00:24:53:11
is far too easily and far too often overlooked and so on.

00:24:53:22 - 00:24:56:14
So just as we get to the close for today's

00:24:56:14 - 00:25:00:00
conversation, and this is but one conversation,

00:25:00:10 - 00:25:05:06
this sort of topic one and we'll get to where you can find, Jesse.

00:25:05:06 - 00:25:08:13
More from Jesse in Keystone Pharmacy Insights especially is

00:25:08:13 - 00:25:10:00
there's a lot more that can be covered in this topic,

00:25:10:00 - 00:25:11:22
a lot more words of wisdom that can be shared.

00:25:11:22 - 00:25:15:07
But let's talk about 26, 2026. Right?

00:25:15:07 - 00:25:17:13
So New Year, obviously, as we're closing out the year,

00:25:17:13 - 00:25:20:13
it's easy to look at, hey, what's our New Year's resolutions?

00:25:20:13 - 00:25:23:08
Whether that's personal, whether that's professional,

00:25:23:08 - 00:25:26:07
you know, what is going to be that part or what would be.

00:25:26:07 - 00:25:27:17
Would you have any recommendations?

00:25:27:17 - 00:25:31:00
Would you have any suggestions, any ideas that you've heard

00:25:31:00 - 00:25:34:00
from some of your colleagues that you say, you know what, this is really great.

00:25:34:11 - 00:25:35:23
Well, I would tell you this.

00:25:35:23 - 00:25:40:18
I actually, had a conversation with a colleague a couple weeks ago on this.

00:25:41:03 - 00:25:45:01
I, I'm not a real big fan of resolutions,

00:25:45:18 - 00:25:48:02
and I think I, I actually think you and I

00:25:48:02 - 00:25:51:24
recorded a podcast on this back in 2019.

00:25:51:24 - 00:25:53:20
I don't quote me on that.

00:25:53:20 - 00:25:57:01
But I, I am more of a fan

00:25:57:01 - 00:26:00:01
of a growth plan over anything else.

00:26:00:14 - 00:26:02:08
And I'm more of a fan of that.

00:26:02:08 - 00:26:05:10
And, and this, this is the reason why it's because

00:26:05:10 - 00:26:09:01
where you are will determine the results that you get.

00:26:10:02 - 00:26:10:15
Okay.

00:26:10:15 - 00:26:15:10
So so you know, and to try to illustrate this, I'll just use numbers.

00:26:16:09 - 00:26:18:18
Let's just say that you are a number

00:26:18:18 - 00:26:22:03
eight pharmacist, you're a rank eight pharmacist.

00:26:22:03 - 00:26:25:07
And whatever the scale needs to be for you, that's fine.

00:26:25:13 - 00:26:28:20
But what you would find is that a rank eight pharmacist

00:26:28:20 - 00:26:31:20
is going to deliver rank eight results.

00:26:32:15 - 00:26:33:03
Okay?

00:26:33:03 - 00:26:36:18
So you know that that that sounds that sounds reasonable.

00:26:37:08 - 00:26:41:07
When you sit down and you say, I want to go up a couple levels.

00:26:41:15 - 00:26:44:16
I want to be a rank, rank eight

00:26:44:20 - 00:26:47:23
pharmacist who delivers rank ten results.

00:26:48:19 - 00:26:50:24
That's a wonderful goal to have,

00:26:50:24 - 00:26:53:24
but that's not really the way things work.

00:26:53:24 - 00:26:56:18
You have to your focus needs to be on

00:26:56:18 - 00:27:01:01
how do I become a rank nine or a rank ten or whatever.

00:27:01:01 - 00:27:04:24
Like that's that's where the the growth plan comes in.

00:27:05:07 - 00:27:10:12
You know, and I think we also talked, you know, and I would give this it's,

00:27:10:16 - 00:27:14:11
there's a world of difference between, output goals and input goals.

00:27:15:07 - 00:27:15:16
Right.

00:27:15:16 - 00:27:19:05
You know, I want to have, you know, I want to,

00:27:20:02 - 00:27:23:08
you know, save X amount of dollars or I want to do this or I want to do that.

00:27:23:13 - 00:27:25:04
Those are wonderful goals.

00:27:25:04 - 00:27:29:11
But, you know, I would also encourage people to be what are those disciplines

00:27:30:04 - 00:27:32:14
that will deliver those results.

00:27:32:14 - 00:27:32:21
Right.

00:27:32:21 - 00:27:34:03
Chances are, you know,

00:27:34:03 - 00:27:38:10
like let's, let's say and, you know, I'm not speaking for myself, but I might be

00:27:39:17 - 00:27:40:09
like, let's say

00:27:40:09 - 00:27:43:10
that somebody wants to lose a few pounds in the new year, right?

00:27:43:10 - 00:27:47:11
You know, like there's there's some disciplines that that have to go in there.

00:27:47:11 - 00:27:48:06
You know, if, if,

00:27:48:06 - 00:27:52:09
if my personal fitness level is a level five, but I want to be a level ten,

00:27:52:18 - 00:27:57:07
you know, fit person that I need, I need to do some different things.

00:27:57:13 - 00:28:01:13
Like I'm not going to become level ten fit with the snap of my fingers.

00:28:01:20 - 00:28:05:00
It's going to be an ongoing process and it's going to it's

00:28:05:00 - 00:28:06:18
going to take a lot of things.

00:28:06:18 - 00:28:07:24
It's going to take,

00:28:07:24 - 00:28:12:06
you know, you know, it's going to take the exercise, it's going to take

00:28:12:06 - 00:28:15:22
the nutrition, it's going to take, you know, all those things.

00:28:15:22 - 00:28:18:08
And I'm obviously I'm not going to try to embarrass my,

00:28:18:08 - 00:28:20:21
my lack of clinical knowledge on these things.

00:28:20:21 - 00:28:22:24
It's going to take given up the donuts.

00:28:22:24 - 00:28:23:08
Right.

00:28:23:08 - 00:28:26:08
It's going to take, you know, some of those different things.

00:28:26:16 - 00:28:31:03
And so, you know, I am a big fan of, of a growth

00:28:31:20 - 00:28:37:05
plan, a big fan and, and similarly, that's that's a process.

00:28:37:09 - 00:28:37:18
Right.

00:28:37:18 - 00:28:40:06
So it's a little bit, it's a little bit,

00:28:40:06 - 00:28:43:15
it's a little bit with some type of regular interval.

00:28:44:00 - 00:28:47:12
And your interval may be completely different than the person next to you.

00:28:47:24 - 00:28:51:10
But you know I would also say this

00:28:51:10 - 00:28:54:19
it's, it's not just acquiring information.

00:28:55:19 - 00:28:58:06
There's, there's a lot of folks out there,

00:28:58:06 - 00:29:02:21
who, who are out of shape with too much information.

00:29:03:08 - 00:29:03:18
Right.

00:29:03:18 - 00:29:05:10
You know, and like, I'm one of them.

00:29:05:10 - 00:29:09:03
I'm, I can be out of shape, but I have I mean,

00:29:09:03 - 00:29:12:07
I have the information, but I don't have, I don't have the application.

00:29:12:07 - 00:29:12:16
Right.

00:29:12:16 - 00:29:15:21
So the growth plan, it would include learning some

00:29:15:21 - 00:29:19:03
and doing some and learning some and doing some and learning some and doing some.

00:29:19:08 - 00:29:22:08
And then, you know, making those adjustments.

00:29:22:09 - 00:29:22:18
Right.

00:29:22:18 - 00:29:25:09
It's you know, continuous quality improvement when it

00:29:25:09 - 00:29:28:13
when it comes down to it, it's that, hey, you learn this

00:29:28:13 - 00:29:31:13
and okay, this is what I'm going to try doing it this way this week.

00:29:31:24 - 00:29:33:24
All right. You come back next week.

00:29:33:24 - 00:29:35:05
How are those results?

00:29:35:05 - 00:29:38:08
Are we or you know, is this something that you can stick with

00:29:38:08 - 00:29:40:02
and and do you need to make an adjustment.

00:29:40:02 - 00:29:44:16
You need to make an adjustment and, you know, that's been something else

00:29:44:16 - 00:29:50:03
is just that there's, there's far too many of our colleagues who have.

00:29:52:18 - 00:29:53:11
I'm going to try to

00:29:53:11 - 00:29:56:11
I'm going to try to word this as lovingly as I can.

00:29:56:14 - 00:29:59:14
We have an inappropriate relationship

00:29:59:19 - 00:30:02:14
with risk and failure,

00:30:02:14 - 00:30:04:12
and as a result,

00:30:04:12 - 00:30:08:00
we end up not taking any risks for improvement.

00:30:09:02 - 00:30:12:10
And then that drops us back into that quote from Eric Hoffer.

00:30:12:10 - 00:30:16:11
In times of change, learners inherit the earth while the learn-ed

00:30:17:05 - 00:30:20:05
find themselves beautifully equipped, equipped to deal with the world

00:30:20:05 - 00:30:22:03
that no longer exists.

00:30:22:03 - 00:30:24:14
My my friends do not be learned.

00:30:24:14 - 00:30:27:14
Be a learner.

00:30:28:11 - 00:30:30:14
Yeah, it's absolutely the key item here for us,

00:30:30:14 - 00:30:33:21
and I, this quote or this idea to me, it also goes back.

00:30:33:21 - 00:30:36:01
Jesse, you and I are both pharmacists.

00:30:36:01 - 00:30:38:23
We've both taken the oath of the pharmacist at least once.

00:30:38:23 - 00:30:39:15
And, you know,

00:30:39:15 - 00:30:43:03
continuing education is also something where, as we're approaching December 31st

00:30:43:03 - 00:30:46:10
for myself and right, what's the intent there?

00:30:46:10 - 00:30:47:11
We're in a profession.

00:30:47:11 - 00:30:50:05
We're in a an item where it's a commitment not just for ourselves,

00:30:50:05 - 00:30:52:09
but for the patients that we're working with.

00:30:52:09 - 00:30:56:20
How we continue to learn to grow, to expand our capabilities,

00:30:56:20 - 00:31:00:23
our points of interest, our understanding, as it goes for these items.

00:31:00:23 - 00:31:04:21
So, I do want to wrap this up, Jesse, as, as it goes to our time

00:31:04:21 - 00:31:08:05
for today, because we certainly can cover this and a whole lot more.

00:31:08:05 - 00:31:10:03
And what is the approach?

00:31:10:03 - 00:31:12:22
What is the mindset and how we're taking to it?

00:31:12:22 - 00:31:16:09
Again, the only constant we're going to be working with and dealing with,

00:31:16:21 - 00:31:19:22
not just in our profession and not just in healthcare, this is going to be change.

00:31:20:04 - 00:31:23:15
And that's where I think this concept of someone who is being a learner

00:31:23:15 - 00:31:27:16
versus learned makes a big difference for taking that approach to it.

00:31:28:10 - 00:31:30:19
And when the changes do come,

00:31:30:19 - 00:31:33:19
do we recoil because it's not something we're familiar with?

00:31:33:23 - 00:31:34:23
Or do we take it

00:31:34:23 - 00:31:38:08
as the opportunity to learn and to expand our understanding for it?

00:31:38:18 - 00:31:42:04
But, Jesse, we've covered a lot today and you've got a lot more to share.

00:31:42:10 - 00:31:44:08
A lot more that you have shared,

00:31:44:08 - 00:31:48:15
with your teams and with the individuals that you work with.

00:31:48:15 - 00:31:51:16
So as we're at the close here, mentioned at the beginning,

00:31:51:16 - 00:31:53:20
you're the founder of Keystone Pharmacy Insights.

00:31:53:20 - 00:31:56:15
So what is that? And where can people find you?

00:31:56:15 - 00:32:00:21
So my work, has evolved over the years, right?

00:32:00:21 - 00:32:04:02
I started off in the community setting, worked in chain, worked

00:32:04:02 - 00:32:08:11
in, worked with independents, have done a number of different things.

00:32:08:11 - 00:32:11:10
But what has become overwhelmingly,

00:32:12:18 - 00:32:15:07
obvious to me is the need for pharmacists

00:32:15:07 - 00:32:19:12
to improve their skills and leading others and leading themselves at the same time.

00:32:19:24 - 00:32:24:14
And so Keystone Pharmacy Insight is a is an organization that I started,

00:32:24:14 - 00:32:28:08
several years ago to help pharmacists improve their leadership skills

00:32:28:08 - 00:32:31:11
so that they can lead themselves, their teams and their patients.

00:32:31:15 - 00:32:36:10
Well, the fact of the matter is, is that, we all find ourselves in a situation.

00:32:36:10 - 00:32:39:13
And whether you've used this language before or not,

00:32:39:13 - 00:32:43:01
people are looking forward to you leading them.

00:32:43:12 - 00:32:43:22
Right.

00:32:43:22 - 00:32:47:12
If somebody has ever asked you for a recommendation,

00:32:47:20 - 00:32:51:07
you know, hey, what would you recommend over the counter for fill in the blank?

00:32:51:11 - 00:32:52:13
What they're asking

00:32:52:13 - 00:32:56:00
in, you know, is they're asking for you to lead them to better health.

00:32:56:12 - 00:32:57:18
They don't know how to do it on their own.

00:32:57:18 - 00:32:59:08
They need you to lead them.

00:32:59:08 - 00:33:02:01
And so, that's the space where I work.

00:33:02:01 - 00:33:03:07
And, you know,

00:33:03:07 - 00:33:07:19
I do that, in a number of different ways, not the least of which is one on one,

00:33:07:19 - 00:33:12:19
you know, education and mentoring, looking to do more group, things.

00:33:13:10 - 00:33:14:07
You can find me.

00:33:14:07 - 00:33:16:18
Is this the right time to, move in to where?

00:33:16:18 - 00:33:19:00
To find me? Nick. Go for it. Yep.

00:33:19:00 - 00:33:23:16
Where I am, where I am active, probably the most is on LinkedIn.

00:33:23:23 - 00:33:26:10
You can find me on LinkedIn.

00:33:26:10 - 00:33:29:23
I'm sure we'll get a link or, something here in the show notes.

00:33:30:10 - 00:33:33:13
For that, I also have a Facebook, community.

00:33:33:19 - 00:33:38:02
Really, the idea is just to, in those communities is to challenge

00:33:38:02 - 00:33:42:09
you with a thought every day and something that would, you know.

00:33:42:23 - 00:33:46:01
Yeah, this can absolutely be part of your process

00:33:47:04 - 00:33:49:04
to improve yourself.

00:33:49:04 - 00:33:52:24
In the last year, I've actually even opened

00:33:53:10 - 00:33:56:20
a school group (SKOOL).

00:33:57:14 - 00:33:59:20
And, Nick, I'll get you that link as well.

00:33:59:20 - 00:34:01:01
We can put that out there.

00:34:01:01 - 00:34:04:17
It's a, it's free to join, just as a community

00:34:04:17 - 00:34:07:01
where we come in there, we talk about different things.

00:34:07:01 - 00:34:11:10
And, there's going to be some interesting things coming to the SKOOL.

00:34:11:13 - 00:34:13:22
You're after the first of the year.

00:34:13:22 - 00:34:17:13
So I would encourage you just to join that group, you know,

00:34:17:13 - 00:34:21:08
show up there and be on the lookout for a new opportunities,

00:34:21:13 - 00:34:24:13
to be able to grow yourself, to be able to grow your team,

00:34:24:13 - 00:34:27:13
and really, you know,

00:34:27:18 - 00:34:30:16
challenge the future on your terms.

00:34:30:16 - 00:34:30:23
Right.

00:34:30:23 - 00:34:34:23
Be proactive in that as, as opposed to reactive that that,

00:34:35:19 - 00:34:39:07
you know, put yourself in a situation

00:34:39:13 - 00:34:44:05
where you're making those choices proactively versus waiting for somebody,

00:34:44:16 - 00:34:47:17
to make it a choice for you that you may or may not like.

00:34:48:06 - 00:34:48:19
Right.

00:34:48:19 - 00:34:52:18
And I think we've probably all been there where somebody has made a choice for us

00:34:52:18 - 00:34:54:07
that we don't understand.

00:34:54:07 - 00:34:57:19
We don't like, you know, there's.

00:34:57:19 - 00:35:00:19
The invitation is there, to,

00:35:01:08 - 00:35:04:11
to do some things to, put yourself in a better, better scenario.

00:35:04:17 - 00:35:05:12
We would love to have.

00:35:05:12 - 00:35:06:16
We would love to see you there.

00:35:06:16 - 00:35:09:16
Love to interact with you on on any of those platforms.

00:35:09:21 - 00:35:10:12
Excellent.

00:35:10:12 - 00:35:14:10
Well, just wishing you and your, your community, your family, nothing

00:35:14:10 - 00:35:17:16
but the best as we finish up this year and as we head into 2026,

00:35:17:16 - 00:35:20:06
I know I'm looking forward to many new, great lessons.

00:35:20:06 - 00:35:24:01
Again, we talked about there's there's many great challenges we continue to face.

00:35:24:10 - 00:35:25:12
But with those challenges

00:35:25:12 - 00:35:29:17
always comes the opportunity for new and strong leadership

00:35:29:17 - 00:35:33:22
and really for people to reveal themselves and their true selves.

00:35:33:22 - 00:35:36:22
And that's the part where I think I like to look at this from a positive,

00:35:37:02 - 00:35:38:10
you know, point of view.

00:35:38:10 - 00:35:38:17
Right?

00:35:38:17 - 00:35:41:21
We get to see those flowers, we get to see those plants bloom.

00:35:42:10 - 00:35:43:06
Something awaken.

00:35:43:06 - 00:35:45:21
And folks that they get to share with the rest of the world.

00:35:45:21 - 00:35:47:03
It's a neat thing.

00:35:47:03 - 00:35:50:22
And really, what we focus on is we focus on those

00:35:51:05 - 00:35:53:20
the those foundational principles.

00:35:53:20 - 00:35:54:15
Right?

00:35:54:15 - 00:35:57:20
We look at, you know, I stratify things three ways.

00:35:57:20 - 00:36:00:01
There's principles that are that are timeless.

00:36:00:01 - 00:36:01:24
These are the principles that always work.

00:36:02:24 - 00:36:05:02
There's different tactics, right.

00:36:05:02 - 00:36:08:04
There's, there's, there's and there's tactics that are fads.

00:36:08:04 - 00:36:10:18
These are things that work for a time.

00:36:10:18 - 00:36:13:11
But you really need to understand

00:36:13:11 - 00:36:16:11
the underlying principle as to how those thing works.

00:36:16:12 - 00:36:19:07
And, you know, we also like to look at frameworks.

00:36:19:07 - 00:36:22:07
We like to look at ways you know, ways for us

00:36:22:07 - 00:36:25:15
to process things and help connect dots and, and go.

00:36:25:15 - 00:36:29:21
And those have been some of the most eye opening things for myself

00:36:29:21 - 00:36:32:22
and the people that I work with is just to be able to help people

00:36:32:22 - 00:36:35:03
frame those things in such a way that they can,

00:36:35:03 - 00:36:38:00
that they can make meaningful impact and change.

00:36:38:00 - 00:36:39:07
Yeah. Thanks.

00:36:39:07 - 00:36:42:07
All right, well, Jess, go out there, continue to make change for our listeners.

00:36:42:07 - 00:36:45:06
We hope you're continuing to make your changes as well.

00:36:45:06 - 00:36:46:20
That does mean we've wrapped up

00:36:46:20 - 00:36:50:07
our episode here in our last episode for the 2025 year.

00:36:50:14 - 00:36:53:04
So for our listeners, thank you for joining us.

00:36:53:04 - 00:36:54:18
We hope you listen to the next episode

00:36:54:18 - 00:36:57:07
of the Quality Corner Show, which will be in 2026.

00:36:57:07 - 00:37:00:21
And before we go, we have one final message from the PQS team.

00:37:02:17 - 00:37:03:05
The Pharmacy

00:37:03:05 - 00:37:06:14
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00:37:07:07 - 00:37:10:16
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00:37:10:16 - 00:37:13:00
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00:37:13:00 - 00:37:15:17
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00:37:15:17 - 00:37:18:02
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00:37:18:02 - 00:37:21:19
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00:37:21:19 - 00:37:25:06
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00:37:25:19 - 00:37:29:00
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00:37:29:00 - 00:37:32:00
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00:37:32:22 - 00:37:35:22
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00:37:36:09 - 00:37:38:09
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00:37:38:09 - 00:37:41:09
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00:37:41:10 - 00:37:45:05
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00:37:45:05 - 00:37:47:18
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