PQS Quality Corner Show
Join Pharmacy Quality Solutions Associate Director of Pharmacy Accounts Nick Dorich, PharmD, for a podcast series "Quality Corner Show" that covers everything quality in the world of pharmacy and patient care. Look for future episodes to interview guests and experts in the healthcare profession.
PQS Quality Corner Show
Reacting vs Responding: How Awareness Impacts Pharmacy Leadership
Jesse McCullough, Founder of Keystone Pharmacy Insights, returns to the PQS by Innovaccer Quality Corner Show to discuss the seven levels of awareness as it relates to impacting pharmacy leadership.
Podcast Host Nick Dorich, PharmD, PQS Senior Manager of Pharmacy Accounts, asks McCullough to describe each level of the awareness spectrum, provide real world pharmacy examples, and explain how to climb this ladder of awareness.
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Jesse McCullough on LinkedIn
http://www.facebook.com/groups/kpipharmacy/
00:00:00:13 - 00:00:20:05
Jesse McCullough
Trigger words for me, if you will are the words only and just. And, had a conversation with the pharmacist, just a couple of nights ago. And she said to me, well, I'm just a retail pharmacist. And I'm like, you have no idea the amount of impact you can have on so many people.
00:00:20:10 - 00:00:42:05
Jesse McCullough
You can impact. You know, you can impact, your team at the pharmacy, you can impact the patients that you serve. But there's this whole ripple effect that goes out from that. Right. When you positively impact a patient that impacts their caregivers, it impacts the community. And when you start doing this in the workplace, it's impossible that it doesn't carry over to home.
00:00:42:13 - 00:00:54:19
Jesse McCullough
Right? When that stuff carries over to home. And that's probably the easiest place to see it. Actually, start to give you those benefits. It can be life changing. It can be absolutely life changing.
00:00:57:09 - 00:01:01:07
Voice Over
Welcome to the Pharmacy Quality Solutions Quality Corner Show,
00:01:01:23 - 00:01:07:02
Voice Over
Buckle up and put your thinking cap on. The Quality Corner Show starts now.
00:01:08:18 - 00:01:33:15
Nick Dorich
Hello, Quality Corner Show listeners, welcome to the PQS podcast, where we focus on medication use, quality improvement and how we can utilize pharmacists to improve patient health outcomes. I'm your host, Nick Dorich. For today's episode, we've brought back a special guest, a returning a recurring guest to the PQS Quality Corner show that's none other than our good friend, and our and our leader in many ways, Jesse McCullough.
00:01:33:17 - 00:01:44:19
Nick Dorich
Jesse McCullough. You'll know him from Keystone Pharmacy Insights. We've had him on the show previously, and with that, Jesse, I'll welcome you on to the show. How are you today? What's going on? And, are you excited for today's podcast?
00:01:45:01 - 00:02:00:20
Jesse McCullough
Hey, Nick, it is so good to be back here. It's always good to be, I consider you guys family. You know, and, I was just thinking about this in anticipation of, recording this podcast today. You and I started this when it was in 2019.
00:02:00:22 - 00:02:01:10
Nick Dorich
I believe so.
00:02:01:10 - 00:02:01:21
Nick Dorich
Are we like.
00:02:01:21 - 00:02:03:20
Jesse McCullough
Five years into this? And,
00:02:03:20 - 00:02:04:04
Jesse McCullough
00:02:04:04 - 00:02:19:22
Jesse McCullough
you know, I've gone on to do some different things, but, it's just such an encouragement to me to see that this continues on. And it's good just to, it's good to be back. Right? This this is, this is solid foundation. This is home turf. And I just love the conversations when we're here.
00:02:19:22 - 00:02:21:22
Jesse McCullough
So very much looking forward to it.
00:02:21:22 - 00:02:40:15
Nick Dorich
Fantastic. So. And, Jesse, folks that are listening to this episode, they probably and hopefully have listened to you on the show before and may have heard of the Keystone Pharmacy Insights, but do you mind just giving us an overview of, you know, what it is that you do there, and then what, information, what knowledge, what wisdom you hope to impart through your work with that organization?
00:02:40:15 - 00:03:09:05
Jesse McCullough
Yeah, I would, what I have found in my career as a pharmacist is one of the biggest challenges that pharmacists, at any level, face is a lack of leadership skill. We find ourselves in a place where we are, we become discouraged. We become frustrated with the things that are going on. And, it took me a number of years to figure it out, but it was it was just this lack of knowing the right way to lead people.
00:03:09:07 - 00:03:33:02
Jesse McCullough
And that's what's led me on this, on this journey. I am currently a pharmacist in the space of doing leadership training and development, equipping, to, to use a play on terms here, with the PQS team. Right. But equipping pharmacists to lead their teams and their patients. Well, and one of the phrases that, that I like to use is that everybody deserves to be led
00:03:33:02 - 00:03:46:20
Jesse McCullough
well, and, when you take that mentality, I, it dramatically change my perspective, with, you know, everyday life, when I recognize that everybody you come in contact with, they deserve to be led well.
00:03:47:05 - 00:04:07:20
Nick Dorich
Yeah, I, I love that perspective. And I also love the idea. Something that I really commit to is that every one of us is a leader. So it certainly starts with ourself. It's very easy and it's human nature to point fingers and place blame at others who are not leading well. But it does start as well with our own attitude and approach.
00:04:07:22 - 00:04:37:16
Nick Dorich
So hopefully with today's leadership lesson, I guess we can call it that. We're going to be able to explore the state of pharmacy practice, leadership opportunities, how that can apply to both us as individuals, how it can apply to the pharmacy community broadly. And you know what we can do to continue our own path of progression and growth for ourselves as individuals, for the patients that we're serving in the communities and for our coworkers, our colleagues, our friends, our family that are working in pharmacy.
00:04:37:16 - 00:04:43:00
Nick Dorich
So, Jesse, with that, I think let's go ahead and jump into the questions for today's show. Does that sound good to you?
00:04:43:07 - 00:04:44:17
Jesse McCullough
Sounds great to me.
00:04:44:17 - 00:05:02:07
Nick Dorich
Perfect. Well, let's get started. And really, the big question I want to ask today, you know, 2024, it seems like this is the case. Every year we learn something new and we're faced with new challenges, new barriers, new opportunities for growth. So what has that been like? You know, for you or what do you think that has been like for pharmacy in 2024?
00:05:02:07 - 00:05:06:02
Nick Dorich
What have we learned that is unique or different in 2024?
00:05:06:19 - 00:05:26:15
Jesse McCullough
I don't know how unique or different this is, but I will tell you, this is something that has stuck out to me more. I don't think there's something is something that's brand new or just emerged. But what I have noticed, so much this year is just the need to help people recognize that leadership is not a title.
00:05:26:24 - 00:05:50:05
Jesse McCullough
It's not a title. And, Nick, you and I have been around each other long enough, and I'm sure you've heard me, tell the story that everybody is a leader, right? Everybody has some leadership abilities. Everybody has some level of influence. And I, I go to the absurd extreme to illustrate this. And I'll use I'll use a newborn baby and, you know, I'll say is a newborn baby, a leader?
00:05:50:05 - 00:06:27:00
Jesse McCullough
And people will, you know, will like to say, well, probably not, but I'm going to tell you to a new parent that that newborn baby leads a, well, questionably responsible adult and in my, in my case, to becoming a competent parent. Right. The, that infant through their crying and and and whatever prompts that that person, that adult to become competent, in their parenting skills, to change a diaper, to feed, to burp, whatever it is, that that that, that that baby needs.
00:06:27:00 - 00:07:07:04
Jesse McCullough
And what a leader does is it helps somebody get from where they are to a better place. And what I have noticed, and I've noticed this, especially just in the last couple of weeks with, with especially with some conversations with pharmacists. It's very much, it's minimized. People think that somehow this leadership responsible ability, privilege, whatever word you want to use with it is somehow reserved, for some special few, so, you know, these these folks that have some title, and there's also folks that think that just because they have a title that people should listen to them.
00:07:07:04 - 00:07:20:05
Jesse McCullough
And do you know any and everything that they say? But what I have found is, is that the basic, the basic requirement to be a leader is to care about somebody near you.
00:07:20:05 - 00:07:29:03
Jesse McCullough
It's a pretty low threshold. If you care about somebody nearby you, what you want is you want to see them go from where they are to some better place.
00:07:29:05 - 00:07:54:20
Jesse McCullough
And, you know, there's a lot of pharmacists who struggle with this because, you know, it's probably I'm gonna I guess I'll call it the curse of knowledge. It's that we become so close to those things, that, that we are so good at that we have a hard time understanding that people don't necessarily see it the same way.
00:07:54:22 - 00:07:57:16
Jesse McCullough
Words that I that are sort of
00:07:57:16 - 00:08:17:08
Jesse McCullough
Tigger words for me, if you will are the words only and just. And, had a conversation with the pharmacist, just a couple of nights ago. And she said to me, well, I'm just a retail pharmacist. And I'm like, you have no idea the amount of impact you can have on so many people.
00:08:17:13 - 00:08:39:08
Jesse McCullough
You can impact. You know, you can impact, your team at the pharmacy, you can impact the patients that you serve. But there's this whole ripple effect that goes out from that. Right. When you positively impact a patient that impacts their caregivers, it impacts the community. And when you start doing this in the workplace, it's impossible that it doesn't carry over to home.
00:08:39:16 - 00:08:51:22
Jesse McCullough
Right? When that stuff carries over to home. And that's probably the easiest place to see it. Actually, start to give you those benefits. It can be life changing. It can be absolutely life changing.
00:08:52:05 - 00:09:14:11
Nick Dorich
Yeah. And just when I, when I hear you say it because I, I, I hear you and what it comes down to, it's that viewpoint or that consideration. Who are we helping? Who are we working with? Who are we accountable for, and who do we want to help promote? So, for sometimes it's very easy to always just see what's happening.
00:09:14:11 - 00:09:35:23
Nick Dorich
The six inches the two feet in front of you without thinking or looking ahead. How does this work? How do our interactions help support the people around us? And you're absolutely right. When you talk about who we are supporting, if you are working in the pharmacy space because it can be, you know, it can be yourself. It can be the leaders or the manager that you report to even.
00:09:35:23 - 00:09:58:12
Nick Dorich
Because while they may be well, they may be your leader and title. There are ways that you can impact and influence them as a leader as well that can be beneficial. For both of you, a concern for the team around you. But for everyone who's a pharmacist, for everybody that works in health care, you are absolutely 100% leading the patients that you are serving, the community that you're serving.
00:09:58:14 - 00:10:01:04
Nick Dorich
So I think, Jesse, see, that's the part
00:10:01:04 - 00:10:11:21
Nick Dorich
it's awareness, right? It's a spectrum of awareness to who you can impact and how you're influencing them. So is that is that the rabbit hole you're looking to go down today?
00:10:12:02 - 00:10:31:08
Jesse McCullough
Well, you know, you and I have had some conversations. Just to the listeners, Nick and I have a handful of conversations over the course of the year. Usually it come, it surrounds whatever popular movie is coming out that we, we will debate whether it's good or bad or whatever. Nick and I have a good relationship in that way.
00:10:31:10 - 00:10:52:03
Jesse McCullough
But we also talk about some of these fundamental challenges that pharmacists face. And, you know, pharmacists. Well, we want to think of ourselves as being, you know, perhaps a little more unique or a little more special. We face very much the same challenges that everybody else on planet Earth faces. And one of those one of those challenges is a fight for awareness.
00:10:52:07 - 00:11:00:18
Jesse McCullough
And, I believe this is a framework that was developed by Bob Proctor. But it's one that I like to share,
00:11:00:18 - 00:11:15:21
Jesse McCullough
and it's called the Seven Levels of Awareness. And, if, if you're following along, you may want to just take a couple of notes on this, but, we'll start at the bottom. The lowest level of awareness is, is the level called animal awareness.
00:11:15:21 - 00:11:48:06
Jesse McCullough
This is I mean, this is when your behavior is very much like an animal. You know, you're concerned about eating and sleeping and it's fight or flight. It's highly reactive. Right. And, you know, and I've seen so much of this in pharmacy. Nick, I've probably told this story to you before. I don't know that I've shared it with this audience, but you know, I would tell you that I have seen pharmacists who have had a, who've had a challenging conversation with one patient or caregiver in the pharmacy.
00:11:48:08 - 00:12:10:19
Jesse McCullough
And what you do is you actually watch that carry over to every other conversation happening in that pharmacy. You see that it impacts how they how they engage with the team, that you see that it impacts how they how they engage with the next patient. And in a lot of cases, what I see is that those pharmacists tend to shy back from the counter, right?
00:12:10:19 - 00:12:29:13
Jesse McCullough
It's like, oh, I'll send my technician to talk to you because I, you know, they're just they're kind of like a wounded animal. And maybe that's not the best. Maybe that's not the best illustration, but I, I'm afraid that far too many pharmacists can identify with that, with that example.
00:12:29:13 - 00:12:34:17
Nick Dorich
So. And, Jesse, before we go further into this example and the levels of awareness,
00:12:34:17 - 00:12:54:06
Nick Dorich
and even as we are talking here, I did a quick, quick Google search to pull this up. And it's often represented as a pyramid. Right. And having, you know, these levels where this is kind of the base level, I think my understanding of it, and as you brought up this idea for us to cover in this, in this episode, this is kind of a spectrum of where we are.
00:12:54:06 - 00:13:11:24
Nick Dorich
And it's not an awareness where throughout the course of a day, you may fluctuate right between levels. So it may be or as you said, the example with a pharmacist or they have a certain patient comes in and it's fight or flight. Nope. I don't want to deal with that person. That's the animal. That's that level.
00:13:12:04 - 00:13:31:15
Nick Dorich
But it's I guess as we go into this conversation and where we want to push the audience, I think is understanding when we are in these lower levels of the pyramid, when we are in these levels of that kind of animal or the other levels that we're going to get to, and how do we increasingly put ourselves into positions that are higher up the pyramid?
00:13:31:15 - 00:13:33:10
Nick Dorich
Is that is that a correct assumption here?
00:13:33:13 - 00:13:51:16
Jesse McCullough
I think that's you're very much on the right path. The question that I would ask the audience is, where do you pay rent? And what I mean by that is which of these levels of awareness do you find yourself at a lot? Because what we, when you understand these different levels, what we always want to do is we want to be trying to get to the next level,
00:13:51:16 - 00:13:51:22
Jesse McCullough
right?
00:13:51:22 - 00:14:08:15
Jesse McCullough
Let's take it up a notch or take it up two. But to your point, it's a spectrum. It's a flow. And you can you can be flying, you can be having a wonderful day and you can be operating at a very high level and something can happen and boom, you're down to level one,
00:14:08:15 - 00:14:09:04
Jesse McCullough
right?
00:14:09:04 - 00:14:27:04
Jesse McCullough
You know that. And we can probably all fit in. And you'll probably be able to think of some very practical examples that you've experienced, by the time that we're done with those. If you're not familiar with this framework, but the question is, where do you pay rent? Where are you spending the most time? Right. Can you have something?
00:14:27:04 - 00:14:34:06
Jesse McCullough
Can something go wrong? And does that have to ruin your day and everybody else's day? Or can something go wrong and you bounce back.
00:14:34:12 - 00:14:35:06
Nick Dorich
Got it. Okay.
00:14:35:08 - 00:14:35:22
Jesse McCullough
So so.
00:14:35:23 - 00:15:01:12
Nick Dorich
And yeah. So with that and we're let off with our animal level of awareness there. And again that's the fight or flight. It's the react respond. It's it's the it's the almost instantaneous. Something happens almost base nature reacting to it. Like again the fight or flight response. That's, that's there from it. Generally that's an item where that's really just survival mode.
00:15:01:12 - 00:15:09:09
Nick Dorich
Jesse. Right. And that may be perhaps more common for our pharmacy colleagues, perhaps during these in or certain interactions.
00:15:09:18 - 00:15:30:01
Jesse McCullough
Yes. And keep this in mind, this whole framework applies to the people on the other side of the counter from you as well. Right? This this is not unique, right? You know, I use this example, we are almost oh my goodness, I should I should have done the calculation. It was about this time of year.
00:15:30:01 - 00:15:47:15
Jesse McCullough
It was right before Thanksgiving, whenever I was in pharmacy school, that I had a kidney stone. And I thought that first day I had that kidney stone, I thought, this is it. I'm dying today. I mean, for anybody that's ever had one, it can be a pretty, pretty intense pain. And whenever I went to the E.R., I was very much an animal.
00:15:47:15 - 00:16:09:23
Jesse McCullough
All I wanted was pain relief. It's only thing that I wanted, right? It's like I was in such misery. And there's a lot of people who present to the pharmacy, and they're in rough shape. Right? They have been given life changing news, and they present to you. Right. And we have the opportunity and this is the leadership part of it.
00:16:10:02 - 00:16:14:07
Jesse McCullough
You have the opportunity to lift them up or you have the opportunity to kick them out.
00:16:14:07 - 00:16:31:24
Jesse McCullough
And it's I think that's very much a, a perspective. And that's why I like to share this framework, because it's, it's something that that helped me, adjust my perspective and to see the pharmacy in a slightly different light, to enable me to lead others better.
00:16:32:17 - 00:16:38:24
Nick Dorich
Understandable. So, Jesse, with that as our starting point, then what's that next stage? What's that next part?
00:16:39:02 - 00:17:01:15
Jesse McCullough
The next step, the next level awareness is the level known as, herd awareness. Right. So this is where you look and you see what's everybody else doing. Right? What's everybody else doing? What are you doing. What what am I doing. And you know, my experience especially with in chain pharmacy is that this was so prevalent right.
00:17:01:18 - 00:17:18:13
Jesse McCullough
Open enrollment season came and then everybody started to call each other and say, well, which health plan are you signing up for? I think these are the best ones. So like, everybody sign up for option B, right. There's, there's so many, so many things like that, out there. And, you know, social media promotes that.
00:17:18:13 - 00:17:37:17
Jesse McCullough
They try to say, well, this is what the herd is doing. This is what you should be. This is what you should be interested in, or this is what you should think about certain things. But this herd awareness is so prevalent. And, you know, one of the things that I've also seen is, you know, what what type of continue education do you do?
00:17:37:19 - 00:17:39:18
Jesse McCullough
We'll do what everybody else is doing. Right.
00:17:39:18 - 00:17:58:10
Jesse McCullough
You know, it may not necessarily or I'll, I'll do the ones that are easy. Right. I'll do the ones that are convenient, but the ones that really interest me, those, those I may not be as aggressive in seeking out. So, you know, I, I share this as well, and, you know, this, this affects the people coming into our pharmacies as well.
00:17:58:12 - 00:18:16:12
Jesse McCullough
Right. You know, whether it's Oprah or Doctor Phil or whatever, you'll there's some morning talk show, that would, you know, put forth some new product or there'd be an interview. And now everybody's like, oh, this is what I need to do. This is what I need to do. Do you have this vitamin or this product?
00:18:16:12 - 00:18:24:16
Jesse McCullough
I remember the, first day, those, nasal, washes were promoted. Oh, my goodness, the phone didn't stop ringing.
00:18:24:18 - 00:18:25:01
Nick Dorich
Oh, yeah.
00:18:25:02 - 00:18:43:12
Jesse McCullough
Yeah. You know, it was it was insane. It was like, where did this come from? And it was, this is what this is what the crowd was, was after. Right. So it just it's just something to be aware of, right? What's going on? You you could see this, in a pharmacy where if one person gets a little bit upset, the next person may get upset,
00:18:43:12 - 00:18:44:02
Jesse McCullough
right?
00:18:44:02 - 00:19:00:04
Jesse McCullough
You know, it's sort of, if somebody on your team is upset, then you may see that carry over to other folks. Right. So it just again, I, I share this framework just to help, you know, I want to raise our awareness so that we can be more likely to see these things as they happen.
00:19:00:07 - 00:19:17:13
Nick Dorich
There's a part of this where it's, I mean, this is somewhat a different phrase, but misery loves a crowd, right? Is something and that it can also mean good things here. Right? It could be that same sort of thing. Right. But this is going from the animal. It's the individualistic to a larger approach. What's next Jess.?
00:19:17:13 - 00:19:47:12
Jesse McCullough
What's next is perhaps the most dangerous level. And this is the level of aspiration. Right. This is where you say, you know what? I'm tired of being at the animal level. I'm tired of doing everybody else's is doing. I think there is something better. And you know what I think? I think I'm going to do something better. And, perhaps the best illustration of this, you know, I don't know when this, podcast is going to be released, but, we're going to be coming up on the end of the year here pretty soon.
00:19:47:12 - 00:20:09:21
Jesse McCullough
And, with the new year, people are always making resolution. And like, we all know, somebody and maybe even ourselves have said this year I'm going to get in shape right? This this is the year, right? That's an aspiration. And what's so dangerous about it is that people will come around and they will give you verbal support of that aspiration.
00:20:10:02 - 00:20:28:04
Jesse McCullough
Nick. Yes, you should get in shape. Oh, that's a great idea. Nick. Right. You know, you have you have a bunch of pharmacies that say, oh, you know what we really need to look at getting into fill in the blank x, y, z. I think there's a new revenue stream that we can look at. But the aspiration is there.
00:20:28:04 - 00:20:54:14
Jesse McCullough
But the day to day prevents you from doing that, right? You. And so what you have is you have people that will give you encouragement and, and you may even feel like in your head that you're making progress, but you're not doing anything right. All you're doing is is talking about it. And so, and that's where it's it's also dangerous because you probably don't have somebody who will hold you accountable at that time as well.
00:20:54:14 - 00:20:56:11
Jesse McCullough
Accountability is such a big thing.
00:20:56:17 - 00:21:11:00
Nick Dorich
And that's and that's probably where you noted when you when you led off saying that this is a dangerous step. My head immediately. It's okay. Well where is that. Where is that part that's come. And I think that's what you're talking to. Because as we get that affirmation from others, it's the positive reinforcement of that.
00:21:11:00 - 00:21:27:21
Nick Dorich
Yes, Nick, you're doing the right thing. You're on the right track. But if there's not a plan to back it up, all we get is that positive dopamine hit that says, hey, everybody thinks I'm doing great, but you've never actually made a change, right? You've committed to something, but you're not actually committing. Notice the change. Intense there. Yes.
00:21:27:22 - 00:21:31:24
Nick Dorich
You're never and is. And is that the part that we're that is wherein the danger lies that.
00:21:32:00 - 00:21:56:14
Jesse McCullough
That is where the danger is. Because you are fooling yourself into thinking that something is happening. You know, to our listeners, Nick and I go back a few years, and at one point I was working in a, in a chain setting, and Nick was my account manager. Right. And he would call up and we would have a meeting about once a month, and we would look at different, results that we were seeing on different performance measures.
00:21:56:14 - 00:22:13:06
Jesse McCullough
And he would say, well, what are you doing? And I and I would probably share with him a number of aspirations of things that we would like to do. And Nick would say, oh my goodness, that sounds wonderful. And I, you know, don't look in your file, Nick. I don't want to I don't know that. I don't know that I want those examples later today.
00:22:13:08 - 00:22:27:12
Jesse McCullough
But, you know, that's it. It's like, oh, just if you could get all your phone, you know, I said, I'm going to get all my pharmacist trained, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And it's like, oh, that sounds good. That's going to make an impact. But if those plans aren't executed, there's there's no benefit that comes from it.
00:22:27:17 - 00:22:49:03
Jesse McCullough
Right. And we could both leave that conversation feeling better about ourselves because I'm like, oh, I, you know, I have a semblance of a plan. Nick, you can go back, you know, to some of the other folks in Client Services and say, hey, I talked with the chain. This is what they're looking at. You know, I think, you know, there's that's that's what makes it dangerous.
00:22:49:06 - 00:22:50:17
Jesse McCullough
That's what makes it so dangerous.
00:22:50:18 - 00:22:59:22
Nick Dorich
So is this next step, this next level of awareness is this something about specifically holding ourselves accountable? Like, I mean, that might be too specific, but what's this next item?
00:22:59:23 - 00:23:02:00
Jesse McCullough
Well, this next one is the most painful.
00:23:02:12 - 00:23:03:04
Nick Dorich
No, I mean.
00:23:03:08 - 00:23:04:17
Jesse McCullough
The next level is the most.
00:23:04:21 - 00:23:05:17
Nick Dorich
Dangerous. Yeah.
00:23:05:17 - 00:23:07:21
Nick Dorich
You're going to have you're going to have to grow out of that.
00:23:07:22 - 00:23:09:11
Jesse McCullough
Right? Right. You know.
00:23:09:11 - 00:23:11:02
Nick Dorich
Emotional. Okay. Go
00:23:11:02 - 00:23:11:06
Nick Dorich
on.
00:23:11:07 - 00:23:20:20
Jesse McCullough
Level level four is individual expression. All right. Now let me let me continue on the example of hey you want to get in shape.
00:23:20:20 - 00:23:21:01
Jesse McCullough
Yeah.
00:23:21:01 - 00:23:34:18
Jesse McCullough
Right. You know, so on January 1st you've signed up for the gym. Now, you haven't been to the gym in some amount of time, and you go to the gym and you use every machine that you can on January 1st.
00:23:34:21 - 00:23:37:13
Jesse McCullough
What do you feel like on January 2nd?
00:23:37:13 - 00:23:39:21
Nick Dorich
Like you never want to go back to the gym again?
00:23:42:02 - 00:23:44:13
Jesse McCullough
And what do you feel like on January 3rd?
00:23:45:02 - 00:23:46:17
Nick Dorich
Guilty that you didn't go back to the gym.
00:23:46:17 - 00:23:47:00
Jesse McCullough
It's.
00:23:47:00 - 00:24:05:08
Jesse McCullough
Yeah. It's it. So what we have to understand is that when we step out in individual expression, we need to expect to be met with immediate and decisive failure.
00:24:07:15 - 00:24:14:23
Jesse McCullough
Right. You need to walk outside and say, you know what? I'm going to do this and you need to expect to get punched in the nose.
00:24:14:23 - 00:24:25:14
Jesse McCullough
And this is where the awareness is. So is so key. Because if you don't have this awareness, you walk into that, you get punched in the nose. And what happens is, is that's it, I'm done.
00:24:25:20 - 00:24:58:03
Jesse McCullough
And you go back, you drop to level one level. You're probably level one there. You know, on January 2nd you're hurt so bad. All you want to do is, is, you know, lay on the couch or whatever. But you find yourself and you'll bounce back to that level two real easy. Real easy. And so this is what's so key is that whenever you whenever you step out in individual expression, there's those folks that were cheerleaders for you.
00:24:58:06 - 00:25:04:17
Jesse McCullough
They may not necessarily be there. It's individual because it can also be quite lonely.
00:25:05:23 - 00:25:27:06
Nick Dorich
So I think this part of it I, drawing a real life example here, I mean especially, you know, us at, at PQS and as we talk with pharmacies, we're talking about new services that patients can receive at their pharmacy. And just I've lost count of how many times we've had pharmacy team members telling us, well, hey, we're offering this blood pressure rating or this agency, or you've had this experience with immunizations.
00:25:27:10 - 00:25:51:15
Nick Dorich
And an immediate response becomes, oh, well, I ask the patient, do you want to get your blood pressure rating? Do you want to get your immunization here at the pharmacy? And they said, no. And that's kind of going to be an immediate response. And that can be an immediate response for a number of reasons. But where we need to be aware and where we need to go from this is understanding not just that the patient said no, but understanding why the patient said no.
00:25:51:17 - 00:26:05:18
Nick Dorich
And then how do we change to have that conversation effectively with the patient? As I mean, hey, if they need to, you know, run because they're going to pick up their kids and it's 5:00 on a Monday, maybe it's, hey, we can schedule this ahead of time. There's some aspect. That's what is our follow up.
00:26:05:19 - 00:26:06:03
Jesse McCullough
Right,
00:26:06:03 - 00:26:26:11
Jesse McCullough
right, right. Because I mean keep these different levels in mind as we think about this example. You know, you could have somebody, you could be stepping out an individual expression, and you're offering an immunization, right? Nick, can I give you this immunization today? Nick, you're coming into my pharmacy. You're at level one, right?
00:26:26:11 - 00:26:50:03
Jesse McCullough
You have that kidney stone and you're not. It's like that is the last thing that. And so you may even say no in a very harsh way. Right. And the result is, is that when you, when you're stepping on an individual expression and you experience that failure, you may give up. And this is something that I hear in pharmacies all too often.
00:26:50:03 - 00:27:10:15
Jesse McCullough
Well, and it's this blanket expression where, oh, nobody wants on them anymore or, or, you know, everybody has them already or, you know, fill in the blank. It's some language, along those lines where, you know, we, we give this excuse and it makes us feel better and it allows us to drop down to that aspiration.
00:27:10:15 - 00:27:22:21
Jesse McCullough
Oh, it's a good idea. But like, everybody has it done already. Right. And you have and you just have that place where you can, you can have your, your awareness rest for a time.
00:27:22:23 - 00:27:27:09
Nick Dorich
Okay. So that with that is level four. What is what is five, Jess?
00:27:27:09 - 00:27:30:13
Jesse McCullough
Level five is the level of discipline.
00:27:30:23 - 00:27:35:23
Nick Dorich
The thing that the thing that everybody loves to have for others in their life, but not for themselves.
00:27:36:15 - 00:27:40:02
Nick Dorich
I'm excited slash nervous about what you have to share here.
00:27:40:05 - 00:28:03:06
Jesse McCullough
Well, the level of discipline, this is probably the least glamorous of all the levels. This is when you show up. This is when you put in the work. And I don't know if if we would have done, we may have done a podcast on this way back in season one, where we looked at the law of process, I
00:28:03:06 - 00:28:03:24
Jesse McCullough
wanted to say we did
00:28:03:24 - 00:28:08:01
Jesse McCullough
that, and we talked about how, you know, something doesn't happen in a day.
00:28:08:01 - 00:28:29:08
Jesse McCullough
It happens daily. And I just love that definition. But it very much, you know, leverages this level of of awareness, of discipline. It's where you show up every day and you keep putting in the work and you keep putting in the work, and you get a little bit better and you get a little bit better, and you keep putting in the work and you keep putting in the work.
00:28:29:08 - 00:28:55:02
Jesse McCullough
And, and those of us that have, you know, with any amount of time in pharmacy practice, you recognize the impact that that discipline has had, right? You will look back at some point and I'll talk to my young pharmacist that may be listening here today, but, you get licensed in that first year, you look back and you think, oh my goodness, I knew nothing when I started, right?
00:28:55:08 - 00:29:13:15
Jesse McCullough
You look back and you think, oh my goodness, how on earth did I possibly survive that? And the answer is that you had discipline, you showed up, you put in the work. Now you you took a few lumps here and there. You it not not every day was sunshine and lollipops. You know, it's it's hitting the treadmill.
00:29:13:15 - 00:29:37:16
Jesse McCullough
It's doing the StairMaster or whatever, whatever analogy you want to connect to. But you end up putting that in and, and I think this is also key. Don't let's let's not overlook this from the patient side. Right? A patient is diagnosed with a with a condition they're prescribed the new medication that puts them, you know at that individual expression level.
00:29:38:02 - 00:30:00:14
Jesse McCullough
Right. You're going to try this new medicine. And they're going to try that new medicine. And they may not feel wonderful after it. Right. We you look at an antihypertensive. And please, just as a disclaimer here, nobody take any clinical, recommendations from me on, on this, but, you know, you have you have some of that, first dose hypertension, right?
00:30:00:14 - 00:30:14:24
Jesse McCullough
The blood pressure comes and people are tired, and they may not like the way that they feel right, or they may end up with the upset stomach or whatever it turns out to be. And like, this is, you know, level five, a discipline. That's the adherence level,
00:30:14:24 - 00:30:19:00
Jesse McCullough
right? That's putting it in. That's continuing.
00:30:19:00 - 00:30:26:13
Jesse McCullough
Because, you know, if you do this time after time, day after day, week after week, month after month, that the benefit will be there.
00:30:26:19 - 00:30:43:06
Nick Dorich
All right. So that's level five. Level six I expect that this has to be if that's the if level five is the boring, we're doing the work, we're putting in the time, I have to expect that level six is some, some degree of moment. Right.
00:30:44:06 - 00:30:49:09
Jesse McCullough
Level six is the level of experience.
00:30:49:09 - 00:31:20:06
Jesse McCullough
And what's key about this is that as you go through something for the first time, everything is new. But after you do that for some amount of time, you gain that experience. And now what you have is, is you have some reserves, you have some perspective that allows you to navigate a scenario and with a little more, with a little more poise, with, with a little more endurance than maybe what you would have otherwise.
00:31:20:08 - 00:31:49:10
Jesse McCullough
I was thinking about this in preparation in my pharmacy career. There were about three days where I thought maybe I made the wrong choice. One of those days, was, when Medicare Part D started in 2006. And there were so many challenges. And like every, like, everything you did was such a struggle. And that happened for the first half of the month of January.
00:31:49:14 - 00:32:15:11
Jesse McCullough
And then it happened again for the first half of the month of February. But it wasn't as bad. And then it happened and, you know, and things improved. But I also noticed that my perspective, my awareness had improved on that as well. Now, if you're curious, the one of those other days where I, didn't I thought maybe I made a bad choice as a pharmacist is when, I erroneously placed an order for,
00:32:15:11 - 00:32:17:20
Jesse McCullough
needles for, immunizations.
00:32:17:20 - 00:32:24:22
Jesse McCullough
And instead of ordering the number of needles, I ordered that number of boxes, and I had pallets of.
00:32:25:04 - 00:32:26:03
Nick Dorich
Different.
00:32:26:03 - 00:32:43:03
Jesse McCullough
Of safety, of safety needles showing up, showing up at pharmacies. Where am I supposed to put this, that that wasn't. But, you know, that it was not. It was not a good experience. But the fact of the matter is, is that we've all gone through hard times. However you want to define what a hard time is, we've all gone through them.
00:32:43:03 - 00:33:03:11
Jesse McCullough
So, you know, when you go through that hard time again, you now have a little more resilience to be able to bounce through that. And, you know, there's probably a lot of our listeners, who have, you know, went through the pandemic and they haven't gone through something, something like that before. They they've gone through some crisis.
00:33:03:13 - 00:33:24:09
Jesse McCullough
I'm sure there's a lot of listeners out there who have had different natural disasters, be it hurricanes or earthquakes or whatever, that have disrupted their business, and they're not pleasant to go through. But the fact of the matter is, is that you now have some you have some experience that you can draw on that heaven forbid that you have to go through it again.
00:33:24:11 - 00:33:33:09
Jesse McCullough
But if you did, you recognize that you would have a you would stand differently as you went through that again.
00:33:33:19 - 00:33:54:11
Nick Dorich
Yeah. And just with that, I'm not going to, you know, buried or try to confuse or have our listeners think that I'm not looking at the seven levels of awareness infographic while we're going through this? That leads us to that last level of awareness, which is mastery in that you've seen you've had the experience before and you know what to do or, you know, it's a sort of item here.
00:33:54:11 - 00:34:20:05
Nick Dorich
I would add or contend that specifically in a pharmacy, I often use this example when we're talking about managing a patient and talking with them about their adherence or talking with engaging with them about their health care. Each patient is unique and different, but it's not just being able to know which tool is right for that patient, but it's taking in all of the information across all of those experiences and knowing how to blend them to get that maximum effect.
00:34:20:05 - 00:34:20:19
Nick Dorich
Right.
00:34:20:23 - 00:34:43:22
Jesse McCullough
Yeah. And think of the confidence that you are able to instill in those patients. Right. I had a, condition called eosinophilic esophagitis. And if you're not familiar with that, what it is, it's some type of allergic reaction which causes my throat to, to swell. And, it's very, unglamorous, but I've. I've choked on water before.
00:34:43:22 - 00:35:03:06
Jesse McCullough
I've choked on rice before just because of that allergic response. And I remember going into the specialist and before he put me under to do the scope on me, he said, you know, I'm pretty sure I know what's wrong with you, right? He had the experience and the perspective. And we all gain this.
00:35:03:08 - 00:35:19:06
Jesse McCullough
The thing is this that doesn't happen overnight. That comes with years and years and years of time and repetition, time and repetition, time and repetition. And you get to the point where, you know, especially early in your career, you don't have that mastery. And somebody asks you some questions and maybe that's that, that that gets to be a little bit challenging.
00:35:19:12 - 00:35:43:08
Jesse McCullough
But once you get in, especially working in, in more specialized discipline for some amount of time, you have that level of mastery. All right, Nick, you have a level of mastery about, performance measures. You understand the different bells and whistles and levers and buttons that are available to look at. And, and you would be able to say, okay, well, this is what we do.
00:35:43:10 - 00:36:04:10
Jesse McCullough
And I know that whenever we try this, this is what's going to happen. And when you have that, when you have that mastery level, you know you're going to try something. You know there's going to be something that doesn't work quite right, and you're going to course correct. And you know, and it will get better. Right? Mastery is the complete opposite of animal awareness, right?
00:36:04:10 - 00:36:17:17
Jesse McCullough
It's when something goes bad. When something goes bad, you don't like lose your mind. When something goes bad, it's like, oh, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to be proactive in how we navigate this versus reactive.
00:36:17:21 - 00:36:46:15
Nick Dorich
Yeah. And just I'll note here as we kind of wrap up and close this topic, this isn't in our conversation, hasn't been about considering or avoidance of conflict or avoidance of these scenarios, which can be kind of painful, but it's about how do we best react, you know, to them where that it's as smooth, it's as clean, and it's as painless as possible for all members of that conflict, that interaction.
00:36:46:15 - 00:36:46:22
Jesse McCullough
Right.
00:36:46:22 - 00:36:57:06
Jesse McCullough
Let me give you just, you used, some nuanced language earlier. Let me offer some nuanced language for our listeners. It's the difference between reacting and responding.
00:36:57:06 - 00:37:16:11
Jesse McCullough
Right? You know, reacting. It's it's, you know, it's automatic, but a response is very thoughtful. And how we do it. Right. And and so I, I share this, because, you know, something's going to go wrong somewhere in the next certain amount of time.
00:37:16:13 - 00:37:38:01
Jesse McCullough
And I don't know what it is. I don't know what it's going to be, but this is what I know. It's, there's, there's going to be some challenge that comes. Right. And what we need to do is we need to recognize that. Where do you want to be? Do you want to have yourself in a scenario where you're reacting, or do you want to put yourself in a in a situation where you can be responding
00:37:38:01 - 00:37:46:19
Jesse McCullough
and that's you know, I, I share this because this is part of the draw, that brought me into these leadership circles.
00:37:46:21 - 00:38:09:14
Jesse McCullough
I saw so many I saw so many reactions. Oh, this didn't happen. This is what we're going to do. You know, it was just there was a lot of what I would call knee jerk reactions that happened. And, there was a lot of frustration. And then there was a lot of people who, you know, were bouncing up and down these different levels of awareness, and they're spending an awful lot of time, on levels, you know, one and two.
00:38:09:16 - 00:38:31:11
Jesse McCullough
And what I recognized is and, this was just part of the life changing, experience that I had was whenever I learned that leadership skills could be learned, you see, I hadn't thought of that beforehand. I, I thought that we were all just sort of gifted with some amount of leadership skill. I had heard the I had heard the term natural born leader.
00:38:31:13 - 00:38:53:17
Jesse McCullough
And, as a Gen Xer, there were a lot of pop culture, characters that I was introduced to that were just natural leaders. And, you know, they just oozed confidence. And you pick anyone that you want, right? And, I thought, well, you either have it or you don't. And what I, what I came to realize is there's a lot of people that didn't.
00:38:53:17 - 00:38:59:10
Jesse McCullough
But what changed everything for me was learning that leadership skills can be learned.
00:38:59:10 - 00:39:16:16
Jesse McCullough
And the fact of the matter is, is that the leadership skills that you do have, you probably learn those from somebody else, and you may have learned some skills which may not have been all that good. Right. And you then you can tell, that they may not have been that good based on the results that you get when you when you're doing something.
00:39:16:16 - 00:39:26:03
Jesse McCullough
And this is the way we've always done it. But, you know, are you getting the results that you want will. No. Or why do you keep doing that. Right. You know, it's it's it you you've had that conversation.
00:39:26:03 - 00:39:26:07
Nick Dorich
But
00:39:26:07 - 00:39:42:22
Nick Dorich
at some point it becomes that, stop hitting yourself, you know, get which when it comes to Thanksgiving and holidays, we'll be around the niece, the nephew, the grandchild. And that's a game that you'll probably play, you know, with them at some point. And it is a fun game, but it's not the world that you want to be living in as an adult.
00:39:42:22 - 00:39:48:15
Nick Dorich
When you're on the routine. Excuse me? Monday to Friday, you know, experience for your work.
00:39:48:19 - 00:40:14:15
Jesse McCullough
It absolutely goes back to everyone deserves to be led well. Right? And I think we have the obligation to at least explore improving our leadership skills. Now, Nick, I would like to do something. I know we're short on time here. But I'll at least mention this. I have a gift I want to give your listeners.
00:40:14:17 - 00:40:15:09
Nick Dorich
Go for it.
00:40:15:12 - 00:40:37:06
Jesse McCullough
I'll give you a link to, put in the show notes. But what it is, is, it'll be a link to a recording. Where I teach on a couple of leadership principles. The first principle that I teach on is the forbidden phrase of leadership. And, Nick, I'm pretty sure you've gone through, one of those, sessions with me.
00:40:37:08 - 00:41:15:18
Jesse McCullough
That's such a powerful tool, to raise your awareness, right. There's a lot of people that will use that forbidden phrase of leadership at that level, too, right? It happens all the time. But then the other part of this, of this video will be on what I call directional leadership. And this goes back to something, Nick, that you alluded to, when it comes down to, caring, the definition of leadership, just being about caring as as recognizing the leadership that we responsibilities that we all have, we have the opportunity not just to, lead our teams or our patients.
00:41:15:18 - 00:41:31:15
Jesse McCullough
We also have the opportunity to lead those people who may have, some type of position or leverage, over us within whatever hierarchy we may work in. And, I do a little teaching on that just to give you some perspectives,
00:41:31:15 - 00:41:40:20
Jesse McCullough
to give you some perspectives and, and to raise your awareness. And I think that if you know, as you're able to do that, you just become empowered.
00:41:40:22 - 00:41:54:21
Jesse McCullough
Right? I do that to, to encourage you. You know, I made a note. I didn't know if you were going to ask me what I thought the future was going to hold. Typically, you ask me some type of question, maybe. Should I should I pause and let you ask me that question? Nick?
00:41:55:03 - 00:42:13:20
Nick Dorich
I was going to I mean, you know, it's that part where we go through and just, I think part of understanding leadership, you know, you and I both work kind of in different fields and, and different, different considerations. That is something we like to have. But also part of it now is, you know from our own standpoint, it's not, you know, what's going to be new for pharmacy.
00:42:14:01 - 00:42:51:16
Nick Dorich
There's if somebody in pharmacy wants to get a, there's probably better people, more informed people on that particular topic that they can go to hear from. I think what we focus on here is really how do we get better as a pharmacist in the ways that are some would describe as the soft skills I think. I don't really like that terminology for it, because to me it under, it doesn't it doesn't put enough emphasis behind the need that these are skills that are imperative for us to succeed, for us as individuals, for the team that we're leading, but also and most importantly, the patients that we're serving.
00:42:51:18 - 00:42:55:08
Nick Dorich
So I'll let you continue just because I think this is something that's.
00:42:55:10 - 00:42:56:06
Jesse McCullough
Great, but
00:42:56:06 - 00:43:22:17
Jesse McCullough
I, I would just offer that, I'm a firm believer that with whatever the future of health care holds, pharmacists and pharmacy are the hope of health care. We are too well positioned to overlook that opportunity that if some of those things are going to change and dramatically change for the better pharmacist have to be involved in them.
00:43:22:19 - 00:43:32:03
Jesse McCullough
Yet we find this place of struggle because it's, oh, I don't have the time. I don't have the resources. You know, there's all these different things,
00:43:32:03 - 00:43:45:06
Jesse McCullough
I wrote down and this is a very simple thing. And you can, you can amaze your friends with this. But my prediction for the future is this, the future holds challenge and opportunity.
00:43:45:08 - 00:44:04:19
Jesse McCullough
You know, it doesn't get much more sophisticated than that, right? There's going to be some challenge that comes down the road. And with that challenge, it's going to bring an opportunity. Now the real question is not what's the what does the future hold? The question is what are you going to do in anticipation of this?
00:44:04:19 - 00:44:05:22
Jesse McCullough
Right?
00:44:05:23 - 00:44:33:21
Jesse McCullough
I you know, I, I've probably shared with you before, I may have shared with this audience before. There's not a group out there that says, oh my goodness, there's a challenge coming. We have too many leaders to, to navigate this challenge. Those words have never been said. Right. What what we need to recognize is and I would just give this, every person on your team needs to develop some level of leadership skill.
00:44:33:23 - 00:45:06:20
Jesse McCullough
They all have different perspectives that they're probably operating at a different level of awareness. Than you are, at any given moment. Right. And they can and they can see and observe and, and bring solutions very practical solutions to the table. And they may not be, you know, turnkey. You may have to massage and adjust and, and do some different things, but you have so much potential all around you, to leverage a better solution for the future.
00:45:06:22 - 00:45:29:19
Jesse McCullough
But part of that is, is we have to invest in those skills, right? You know, you have, I've worked in a number of pharmacies where the technicians didn't feel like they could share any ideas with the pharmacist. I worked with some pharmacists at an intern. As an intern who, told me that they. The pharmacist told me that she hated interns, and I shouldn't even come to work on the days that she's working.
00:45:29:24 - 00:46:04:24
Jesse McCullough
Right? You know, there are different, there's just different environments out there. But as you recognize that there is going to be some challenge come. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it looks like, but the way to be prepared for it is to be equipping your team now, to be raising your level of awareness just to be, you know, even something as simple as being aware of these different levels of awareness can be very helpful to be able to say, hey, Nick, I think, you know, Nick, I think you're really, fighting for this, herd awareness level right now.
00:46:05:01 - 00:46:16:17
Jesse McCullough
You think we could level up to, an aspiration or an individual expression here? And you know that that might be the circuit breaker that you need to be able to move your folks forward a step or two.
00:46:17:11 - 00:46:42:18
Nick Dorich
It's a great message, Jesse. And I know we are getting close to the end here. We can spend a lot more time going through this what this means? I think the summary point that I'll keep here is that it's about a flexible mindset. It's about how we, again, how we're able to not react, but how we are able to respond and understand in the context being open to learning, being open with communication for ourselves, for those that are going to be around us.
00:46:42:20 - 00:47:04:18
Nick Dorich
But Jesse, there's going to be a lot of people that are going to need continued lessons, on leadership, on awareness, on communication and and many, many other topics in 2025. And with that being said, you know, as we're finishing up here, where do they find you? How do they contact you so they can, hear more of the great words, great ideas that you have to share?
00:47:04:18 - 00:47:24:03
Jesse McCullough
So I would I would say this, Nick one, click the link that will have related to the show notes here. Get signed up, watch the video. What matters most to me is that you improve your leadership skill. When you watch the video, you'll say either I like this guy in his teaching style or I dislike him.
00:47:24:05 - 00:47:42:07
Jesse McCullough
And if you dislike it, that's fine. You can find somebody else. I, I what I want is I want you to improve. I want you to be successful. So that would that would be one thing I get on that that would get you on my mailing list, so that we can let you know of different opportunities as they come forward.
00:47:42:09 - 00:48:08:11
Jesse McCullough
Also, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I try to share, 1 or 2 thoughts every day. Just to challenge, or to perhaps reinforce an idea that, that, you know, can move your business forward, that can move the way that you interact, with, with somebody on your team or somebody that you provide care for, maybe just a way that you adjust your mindset.
00:48:08:11 - 00:48:30:21
Jesse McCullough
but yeah, that, you know, connect with me on LinkedIn. That's what I would ask that you do, connect with me there. And, you know, that way you'll just have the opportunity, and I welcome, messages on there. Be happy to help you however I can. And, we'll have, opportunities for individual and group lessons as we, as we move forward.
00:48:31:02 - 00:48:49:07
Jesse McCullough
And, you know, I cannot stress enough, you know, leadership is not something that you go and you spend a day in the classroom, or you do a CE and all of a sudden you're competent. You need you need to be going and you need to have people beside you. You need to have people encouraging you.
00:48:49:09 - 00:49:11:21
Jesse McCullough
You know, it just goes back to your levels of awareness, right? When you try something that that individual expression and you get punched in the nose, you need to have people there that can help you get back up, that can help you fight through that, to get to that level of discipline. Right. And so, don't go alone, you know, find ways to, and that may be, with a partner.
00:49:11:21 - 00:49:20:03
Jesse McCullough
It may be with somebody on your team. It could be a family member. Whatever. Because, as you as you improve your leadership skills, everybody around you is going to get better.
00:49:20:08 - 00:49:40:23
Nick Dorich
Yeah. And as we finish this part up, Jesse, I'll note for, message for the audience as you're listening to this. You know, we talked about the conversation today being the difference between reacting versus responding. And I would encourage you as you follow Jesse on, LinkedIn on social media and get the see the many posts and items that he's talking about, use that as an opportunity to respond.
00:49:41:00 - 00:50:09:18
Nick Dorich
Maybe isn't right away, but as you read some of those words, some of those lessons and ideas take it as an opportunity to let them, you know, percolate a little bit and your head. And does that resonate with you? Do you have examples? I think a lot of these, be it be a leader in your own right and sharing, you know, whether it's a real world example from these items or how this item has, has impacted you, it's a great way for us to all be part of that conversation and really making some of the social media items as a way, way for it for good and for us to be leaders as
00:50:09:18 - 00:50:20:03
Nick Dorich
well for sharing those thoughts. And I'll I'll leave that as my kind of final note. Jesse, we're going to wrap up here for this episode. I appreciate having you on the show, as always. Any final comment?
00:50:20:05 - 00:50:36:19
Jesse McCullough
I, I just appreciate the opportunity to be here as, as I think we started off with this. There's a big part of this which is home for me. And, it's good to come home. It's good to see you. I wish you all the best. And to all of our listeners, I wish you all and only the best as you go forward.
00:50:36:24 - 00:50:42:17
Jesse McCullough
And I welcome the opportunity to serve you and help you advance in your leadership, in your leadership journey.
00:50:42:20 - 00:50:58:00
Nick Dorich
All right. Well, no, no better way to sign off. So, I'll get right into our closing for today's episode again. Jesse. Thank you. Wish you all the best for you, for your family. As we're approaching the holiday season here and for our audience with that, we have wrapped up this episode. So we thank you for joining us today.
00:50:58:04 - 00:51:05:18
Nick Dorich
We hope you listen to our next episode of the Quality Corner Show. And before we go, we have one final message from our team here at PQS.
00:51:05:18 - 00:51:09:21
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00:51:09:23 - 00:51:33:08
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00:51:33:10 - 00:51:49:07
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00:51:49:07 - 00:51:49:15
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well.