Pharmacy Teams Impacting COVID Clinical Services

John D. Grabenstein, PhD, Managing Editor, Immunize.org, talks about how pharmacy teams have made an impact in COVID Clinical Services during the pandemic on the Quality Corner Show with Host Nick Dorich, PharmD, PQS Senior Manager of Pharmacy Accounts.
Grabenstein also talks about how pharmacists and pharmacy technicians experienced increased scope of practice.

John D. Grabenstein is the author of the Aug. 18, 2022 JAPha article "Essential services: Quantifying the contributions of America’s pharmacists in COVID-19 clinical interventions."

Transcript

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00:00:01:11 - 00:00:24:00
Speaker 1
So when I wrote the manuscript and submitted it, we were at 258 million COVID vaccinations. When the article came out, I think we were to 70 to the end of November. It was at 292. And so we're I mean, we're in McDonald's hamburger of of, you know, will you know, we'll be at a third of a billion doses.

00:00:24:05 - 00:00:37:01
Speaker 1
And, you know, this is not this is not turning into doses. It's not intended to thousand doses. It's 282 million. Those I mean, it's just it's just mind boggling.

00:00:39:14 - 00:01:04:07
Speaker 2
Welcome to the Pharmacy Quality Solutions Quality Corner Show where quality measurement leads to better patient outcomes. This show will be your go to source for all things related to quality improvement and medication use and health care. We will hit on trending health topics as they relate to performance measurements and find common ground for payers and practitioners. We will discuss how the platform can help you with your performance goals.

00:01:04:17 - 00:01:26:05
Speaker 2
We will also make sure to keep you up to date on pharmacy quality news. Please note that the topics discussed are based on the information available at the date and time of reporting, information or guideline are updated periodically and we will always recommend that our listeners research in any guidelines that are newly published. Buckle up and put your thinking cap on.

00:01:26:05 - 00:01:28:07
Speaker 2
The Quality Corner show starts now.

00:01:31:20 - 00:01:55:08
Speaker 3
Hello Quality Corner Show listeners. Welcome to the PQS podcast, where we focus on medication, use, quality improvement and how we can utilize pharmacists to improve patient health outcomes. I'm your host, Nick Dorich, and on the episode today, the focus is 100% on how pharmacists have impacted patient health outcomes. Specifically, we're going to be talking about the impact with COVID 19.

00:01:55:16 - 00:02:15:02
Speaker 3
And while we don't fully understand the impact going forward about this virus, we know it will have an impact on our health and our health system for years to come. While many of us now return to some form of normal or perhaps the new normal life, the reality is that we're going to continue to deal with COVID 19 for the foreseeable future.

00:02:15:18 - 00:02:35:10
Speaker 3
And while we think about the future, it's important that we also reflect on the past experience. And today, we're going to do just that with our guest. Specifically, we're going to review and discuss the impact that pharmacists have and what they were able to accomplish and how our pharmacy teams have helped us get through the COVID 19 pandemic thus far.

00:02:36:00 - 00:02:57:06
Speaker 3
It's a long road. We've come a long way. But there's more work to be done, and the pharmacists and the pharmacy team are going to be an integral part of our success going forward. Now our guest today is featured on the episode, and I'm going to reference for our audience a Journal article that I recommend you download and check out after or during listening to this episode.

00:02:57:13 - 00:03:20:07
Speaker 3
The article is titled Essential Services Quantifying the Contributions of America's Pharmacies to COVID 19 Clinical Interventions, and it was published in the August 20, 22 Journal of the American Pharmacists Association. We'll include a link to that article in the show notes. But with that, let me welcome Dr. John Grabenstein to the podcast. Jon, how are you doing today?

00:03:20:22 - 00:03:22:05
Speaker 1
Great. Nick. Thanks for having me on.

00:03:23:01 - 00:03:40:10
Speaker 3
Excellent. Well, before we get into the content for today's episode, we need to know who you are and your experience, your background. I know that you're a vaccine expert and a passionate pharmacist about public health. So do you mind giving us a quick rundown on, you know, who you are and then what you do?

00:03:40:16 - 00:04:01:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, so I'm actually in my 40th year of specializing in vaccines. It seems hard to believe. So I got my pharmacy degree in 1980 from Duquesne University paper way, way through school with an Army ROTC scholarship. So I ended up owing Uncle Sam four years of service when I was done, but I ended up staying in the Army for 27 years.

00:04:02:02 - 00:04:20:15
Speaker 1
The Army taught me a lot about a lot of well, a lot of a lot about a lot of things, but taught me a lot about that's that's how I got into vaccines was various jobs I had in the Army and then retired from the Army in 20 in 2006, went to work for Merck vaccines up on the north side of Philadelphia and stayed there for 13 years.

00:04:20:16 - 00:04:43:11
Speaker 1
And I thought I was going to retire and have a nice cushy life back there in January of 2020 and boom, this silly little thing called a virus came along and turned everybody upside down. And so it's been a busy couple of years. Well, I think it's a busy couple of years for me sitting here doing a bunch of podcasts and telephone consults and that sort of thing.

00:04:43:21 - 00:04:55:02
Speaker 1
What I know now is how busy it's been in in clinical pharmacy practice, community pharmacy practice with everything turned upside down in in in pharmacies across the country.

00:04:55:06 - 00:05:14:12
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And John, I thank you for coming on the podcast today for myself as a member of AARP. I know you've been involved with vaccine efforts and providing a lot of information. I was on a couple of webinars, I think back in 2020 or early 2021. You were talking about the vaccines that were yet to be coming or soon coming and some of the updates and boosters.

00:05:14:12 - 00:05:35:03
Speaker 3
So I I've known you really to be an expert in this area. I was fortunate enough that you and I share some mutual connections and good friends, and when I saw this journal article, I didn't admittedly, I didn't catch it in August. I had a lot of stuff going on in my personal life. When I did get to reading it in October, it was one where, Hey, this is perfect for the show, would really like to discuss this.

00:05:35:03 - 00:05:56:16
Speaker 3
You know, what pharmacist have done and then what that can mean going, going forward, both for pharmacists but also more broadly for vaccines and for for public health. So, John, we're going to go ahead and get started. But before we get into the questions with today's episode, we're going to take a minute to hear the breakdown from PQS.

00:05:56:16 - 00:06:20:16
Speaker 2
Now it's time for the breakdown as quality corner show host Dorich asks three main topic questions. Our guests will have a chance to respond and there will be some discussion to summarize the key points This process will repeat for the second and third questions, which will wrap up the primary contents for this recording. After that, expect to end on a closing summary, usually containing about this question.

00:06:21:06 - 00:06:29:07
Speaker 2
Now that we have the start of the process, let's jump into the questions.

00:06:29:07 - 00:06:54:02
Speaker 3
All right, John, we're ready to get into the questions for today. And again, going to be referencing your article from the August 2022 issue of the Journal of the American Pharmacists Association. And really, let's just start with the big item, right when COVID 19 started to really rear its head, there was a lot of, I would almost say downtime for pharmacies and for the pharmacy team, the pharmacy staff at that point in time.

00:06:54:09 - 00:07:16:11
Speaker 3
And I'm going to say that broadly, because we know it was more than just pharmacists. There's a lot of people that are working with the pharmacists, pharmacy pharmacists, pharmacy technicians, other support staff that had a big role to play. But as we started to go throughout the year, there were a lot of opportunities where pharmacies were relied on increasingly more and more to support public health efforts and to support patients individually.

00:07:16:20 - 00:07:36:23
Speaker 3
So your article went into really quantifying what pharmacy did. There's a lot of information that we have out there, but your information was really the first that I saw that specifically went into identifying what did the pharmacies do, what did our community pharmacies do? What did our pharmacist members in hospitals and really what did they accomplish? So do you mind running us through at a high level?

00:07:36:23 - 00:07:42:19
Speaker 3
What are some of your highlights in how the pharmacy teams nationwide impacted America here during COVID 19?

00:07:43:16 - 00:08:13:06
Speaker 1
So I'm real careful to say pharmacist rather than pharmacy because it's the people, not the building or the service, of course, and you already picked up an important piece of it. It's not just the pharmacist, it's the text, it's the support staff, it's the it's the stockers, it's the truck drivers. So that whole logistics chain, you know, we we know we've we've long known, but we need to recognize how important each of the team members was at each step, a step along the line.

00:08:13:21 - 00:08:48:12
Speaker 1
And what's the first thing that struck me is even before the vaccines became available in two years ago, now, December of 2020, how, you know, pharmacists were stepping up in their communities to make sure people had, you know, maintenance meds and your insulin and figured out workarounds to to get the care delivered that you know is the hallmark of community pharmacy without, you know, with less face to face contact struggling through quarantines of staff and, you know, and all the uncertainties and the fear.

00:08:48:12 - 00:09:12:11
Speaker 1
I mean, think back to early 2020 when there were, you know, no particular interventions at all. They didn't even know what the what to call the virus. And you know, how much fear there was in America and how much further along we've thumbnail. But so so there's that whole preparatory piece. But then then the vaccines came out and for me the, the most emblematic piece was a front page story in The New York Times.

00:09:12:18 - 00:09:46:04
Speaker 1
It was it was in I think February was when this story ran and in it showed death rates in long term care facilities and it looked like a waterfall that, you know, the day the vaccines became available, the deaths started falling. And it was attributable in great, great measure to pharmacists in the in the pharmacy teams going to the long term care centers, the nursing homes, etc., to, you know, to get those vaccinations delivered.

00:09:46:04 - 00:09:48:18
Speaker 1
And it's really a remarkable accomplishment.

00:09:48:18 - 00:10:08:12
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And John, going through the article on a poll out, a couple a numbers and details here that I found really interesting were telling perhaps what we think about going forward. Right. So some of the findings and information and perhaps you can give us a little bit as well for where some of this information, where some of this data is coming from.

00:10:08:12 - 00:10:38:10
Speaker 3
But roughly roughly 45% in the United States of COVID 19 vaccinations between December 2020 and September 20, 22, given by community pharmacy teams at pharmacy programs to me and think about other vaccine programs, notably flu influenza. We know some information that's that's there. And typically, CDC and other parties have looked at pharmacy vaccination or vaccines given from pharmacies, pharmacy staff members, somewhere between 30, 35%.

00:10:38:18 - 00:11:03:05
Speaker 3
And so this is looking at, you know, the pharmacy staff members. You know, there is an increase here in that capacity. That capability is that that had an impact. So what are your thoughts? What are your takeaways as it relates to that? Does that speak to increased capability, increased capacity? Obviously, pharmacy organizations, if they're going to support increased vaccinations, there's got to be changing in staffing models or workload to support that as well.

00:11:03:13 - 00:11:11:02
Speaker 3
But does this show more of an opportunity for pharmacy organizations, the pharmacies, pharmacy technician, to play a bigger role in immunizations going forward?

00:11:11:08 - 00:12:02:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, a whole bunch of pieces in there. So the 45% is based on CDC knowledge of the distribution that that that many of the doses went into the essentially were sent to wholesalers and then onward to onward into individual community pharmacies. And so that's the minimum and I make I may make the point in the article that that if you factor in the other settings, the health systems and the nursing homes and the, you know, the the federal facilities and all the other places where pharmacies were leading teams, you know, leading the institutions, teams that the proportion of COVID vaccination is given by pharmacists and pharmacy teams was over 50%, over half in that incredible.

00:12:02:17 - 00:12:36:22
Speaker 1
Now know why that's a higher proportion a if you if you feel tired and exhausted, there's a good reason for it because you were busy. Why that higher proportion, that part of it is the huge fraction of the population had to move through some, you know, narrow gates as fast as we could move them. So why we might say, why didn't physician offices or medical or, you know, yeah, you know, wait, wait, wait, in other settings step up or contribute to or do a bigger share?

00:12:36:22 - 00:12:56:17
Speaker 1
I don't know. It would be interesting to do some blind surveys and and probe on that. But but but it is a fact and so there's there's a couple of teaching points in there. One was that that whole you know, I got my first two doses at the community center. I had to drive an hour. I'm out on the eastern shore of Maryland.

00:12:56:17 - 00:13:25:17
Speaker 1
It's you know, it's relatively rural out here, you know, with some population centers. But I had to drive an hour to get vaccinated and that because it was, you know, the national you know, they had the National Guard mobilized and all that kind of stuff. But but what you know, when when that vaccine was in short supply at first and once that once the supply caught up, then they needed many smaller channels the sources of vaccination.

00:13:25:17 - 00:13:46:05
Speaker 1
And and you can get a lot more done by having people come shorter distances to many more places. And so there's that. And then you asked about the future a was just out at the CHP meeting last week and he gave a talk and they asked me to talk about new vaccines. And I said, Well, you really want me to talk about new diseases?

00:13:47:00 - 00:14:15:08
Speaker 1
Newly preventable diseases, RSV, respiratory syncytial virus for one, and then there'll be some others. But, you know, it's getting to the point now, you know, where pharmacy vaccination programs cannot be should not be just flu shot, seasonal programs. They really need to be 12 months of the year because, you know, some folks will be willing to sit still for, you know, for sticks.

00:14:15:08 - 00:14:32:19
Speaker 1
But not everybody. And so you may need to bring them back once a month for four times. And that means stretching it out for the year. So I think that's the biggest piece about, you know, where the future is going to be, is that we need to the pharmacies need to be staffed so that they can fulfill the community's need.

00:14:32:19 - 00:14:46:14
Speaker 1
I understand about workload and burnout and all that kind of stuff. And I'm arguing for adequate staffing that. But, you know, because it's about meeting the community's need, that's the most important.

00:14:46:14 - 00:15:06:09
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And John, we've covered on prior episodes. Folks have listened to the show for a period of time, know that we've covered on the Quality Corner Show how important it is for pharmacies to communicate with patients and has interest to advertise but communicate with their patients throughout the course of the year. Right? It's not just a seasonal thing for these immunizations.

00:15:06:09 - 00:15:45:11
Speaker 3
Patients need to know throughout the year. You know, these vaccines, they're safe, they're effective, they're important to get whether it's a routine annual vaccine or whether it's other vaccines like pneumococcal or for or are zostavax things that may be more age and disease state dependent. So people really need to understand these parts of it when they're getting a vaccine, why they're eligible for it then, and pharmacy staffing models, pharmacy operations, workflow needs to be for scheduling for patients to get those vaccines is important, but scheduling and how that's done can also be a barrier, particularly when there are issues or discrepancies when it comes to health equity.

00:15:45:17 - 00:16:04:17
Speaker 3
So there's a very fine balance between keeping the pharmacy running and having that done appropriately, having the staff to do it, but also it being accessible to the patients in the communities that we're trying to serve. So, John, you and I aren't going to try to solve that issue right here and now on this podcast. Certainly conversations that we've covered somewhat that we can continue to cover in the future.

00:16:05:01 - 00:16:34:08
Speaker 3
But where I want to pivot us now is how did different pharmacies work through their operations around COVID 19? In the article, you included some information, almost editorials or, you know, comments about how different types of pharmacy organizations, how they supported their communities, So what community pharmacies were doing, what community pharmacies were doing as it related to federal programs and how that differed versus hospital pharmacies or other types of settings.

00:16:34:08 - 00:16:45:09
Speaker 3
So do you mind giving us some examples on how different practice settings where intimately involved with their own communities and contributing to patient care? Sure.

00:16:45:12 - 00:17:14:17
Speaker 1
The the most obvious example or the most frequently seen example was probably card tables and, you know, set up in the, you know, one of the aisles of the pharmacy and that became the vaccination aisle. I was in a community pharmacy the other day and over the loudspeaker assistance needed in the vaccine department. And I was actually rather pleased to hear that because I like to think that there's a vaccine department and a pharmacy.

00:17:16:13 - 00:17:51:19
Speaker 1
So so, you know, extra labor was brought in to to manage workflow and and that sort of thing. And it was a you know, it was an all hands on deck kind of approach. And it, you know, obviously would vary from place to place about how what the volume was. And, you know, is this a you know, is this a rural setting where the you know, it wasn't all that many people, all at once, but or was it an urban setting or a suburban setting where, you know, it's a shift changer at the lunch time or, you know, certain hours of the day would become more more busy for pharmacy has pharmacist vaccination programs have

00:17:51:19 - 00:18:26:02
Speaker 1
largely been sort of a no appointment model which really takes advantage of the access that the people have to pharmacies and pharmacists. And but as the volume increases, it may regrettably, to a certain extent, there may need to be more of a channeling of we offer this service at this this these times of these days or something that that, you know, accommodates the the volume that I'm predicting will be will be important.

00:18:26:02 - 00:18:48:16
Speaker 1
And yet we need to maintain that that convenience access piece that that's just part and parcel to the pharmacy success so far. And and I mean pharmacy success in the sense of the community success that they can get vaccinated, then it's not too the barriers aren't too high. But how many times do we have to change bus You know, I have a car.

00:18:48:16 - 00:19:09:24
Speaker 1
You you probably have a car. And everybody we know probably has a car, but there are people who have to change buses to get across town and the easier you make things or they if they don't go to work, they don't get paid. And so the better we easier we make things for such folks. We'll help with those equity issues that you raise.

00:19:10:16 - 00:19:38:19
Speaker 3
Yeah. Going through and I'm just going to read some of the highlights. You know, there are pharmacies administering thousands, thousands of vaccines that were done in underserved sites in key city areas, doing vaccines in in neighborhoods, squares, doing vaccines on campuses, doing vaccines that football and basketball stadiums doing vaccines at churches and even with employers. I don't think any of these items.

00:19:39:00 - 00:20:11:03
Speaker 3
Maybe the football field, football fields, I haven't heard of pharmacists doing vaccinations at football fields prior to COVID 19, but I have heard of pharmacy teams doing vaccines or other testing and screening surfaces at facilities like this, and it's more about going out into the community. We already know, John, we've already drawn some lines on clarifying pharmacies as the building pharmacy teams, as the people we've already heard about pharmacy teams in years past going out to the community, the pharmacy, the building is the most accessible health care site.

00:20:11:22 - 00:20:31:02
Speaker 3
But if the pharmacy isn't open when patients need to come in or when it doesn't work, their schedule, that's still a barrier to care. And I'll be interested to see going forward. Now that pharmacy organizations and pharmacy teams have dipped their toes in some of these services, how does that change going forward? Are they looking at more community events?

00:20:31:12 - 00:20:44:12
Speaker 3
Is that something that they can replicate? And is that something whether it's coming from patients or for payers, that pharmacies and pharmacy teams can be reimbursed for these efforts? So, John, I'll let you respond to that. To that before we go to the next question.

00:20:44:21 - 00:21:18:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, no, those are all good points and I'm into raised that myself in the earlier good comments. I meant to raise that point earlier on. You know, it's not just being in your own building, but going to where the people are and the, you know, so so it's an efficiency question. When can you afford to send out a team in terms of your your business model, your your labor available staff personnel and where would you go?

00:21:18:12 - 00:21:47:04
Speaker 1
Would it be a an employer? It would it be a school? Would it be a, well, long term care facility? And so going to employers has been mainly a flu shot thing. But what if next year or the year after we have a respiratory syncytial virus vaccine that pretty much everybody who gets a flu shot should get, or at least, you know, it'll be adults at first and presumably broader, broader ages over time.

00:21:47:13 - 00:22:15:18
Speaker 1
And so, you know, then there's more to do. And  the health economics, a whole thing should make the employer want to have their person protected on the job, not not sidelined. And it shouldn't in the health plans, the payers should be willing to compensate for the service to you know, to get that same return, especially if the payer or should be the buyer.

00:22:15:19 - 00:22:35:24
Speaker 1
The employer makes it clear to the health plan that they want to have that service provided in the in the contract terms. So, you know, all those things get wrapped up in all this. And, you know, I think the pharmacy department or assuming the vaccine department is going to be a bigger, bigger chunk of the pharmacy operations over time.

00:22:36:08 - 00:22:55:05
Speaker 3
Absolutely. I'm saving that term vaccine department. That might be the title or the lead and part of the title for a future episode on the show. As we talk about this more broadly now, John, I'm going to so going to our third question and looking at this item, this might be a little bit I'm asking you to look into the crystal ball, if you will.

00:22:55:18 - 00:23:23:01
Speaker 3
With COVID 19, there was a number of changes and some of these items still very much in effect, that change changed scope of practice or authority for pharmacists and pharmacy technicians. But pharmacists, this is particularly related around testing for COVID 19 and also in some cases prescribing. We're seeing some of that happen right here and right now with pharmacy technician that's more so related to being able to administer vaccines.

00:23:23:04 - 00:23:37:05
Speaker 3
There's still elements where a pharmacist needs to be about that. But what do we see? What have we continue to see? What's the moment that we see in these areas? And again, asking you to look in your crystal ball. So, no, no promises, but what do you see happening happening going forward?

00:23:38:00 - 00:24:01:09
Speaker 1
So that's actually the reason I wrote the article, was anticipating that at some point. Well, so it depends on what state trip. Some states had pretty broad authorities in the first place. Some states you probably know which ones you are, had relatively restrictive scopes of practice. But but Uncle Sam, the Department of the Services came in and said, no, no, no, we need uniformity across the country.

00:24:01:09 - 00:24:30:24
Speaker 1
This is an emergency. We are going to preempt state law, state regulation in in by fiat, um, expand the pharmacy's pharmacists scope of practice or in student pharmacists and Texans and case and so but that is temporary and when the emergency ends that will those emergency authorities will lapse and it'll return to whatever the underlying state law state regulation is.

00:24:31:09 - 00:24:55:01
Speaker 1
And so one of the first thing, you know, as soon as the soon as the article was available, I sent it to the national. So this alliance of state pharmacy associations to get out to the you know, to the 50 state pharmacy associations so that they could get their you know, they could get ready, they would have the benefit of taking this to the state legislature, etc., health department and in so that they could tell the story.

00:24:55:15 - 00:25:35:03
Speaker 1
I've been at this you know, I've been helping with pharmacists as vaccinators since 1996. And we get into these silly turf wars. It's not about my authority versus your authority or robbing the patient from the physician. It's about what's the community need, what what, what do the people need? Who's going unvaccinated? How inequitable is our system that the people who have cars can drive and get a flu shot because they can take a long lunch in the in the laborers and the, you know, poor people can, you know, get the protection that they need and deserve.

00:25:35:19 - 00:26:02:10
Speaker 1
And that was, you know, I want to pick up that point a little bit more. One of the early words, if you remember back in very early 2021, was, you know, whether rich people would get the vaccine before poor people got the vaccine and there were people with means. And that's that was what was really reassuring, was that that 70% value of 70% of the vaccinating pharmacies in its buildings, in that case, not enough people.

00:26:02:16 - 00:26:34:04
Speaker 1
But but because that's how it was counted. But they were in communities. Whether that were moderate to high on a are an index of social vulnerability which is income predominantly and you know and so pharmacists were where people needed them. And so we and so they were able to quickly, readily, easily step in and help their neighbors. And it just so incredibly gratifying to see to see that happen, you know, what everybody would want.

00:26:34:11 - 00:26:36:18
Speaker 1
And we sort of proved that it really did happen.

00:26:37:17 - 00:27:05:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. John, I love your comments. And when this got published first right, First actions sending this to Naspa to share with all the states. I think in a lot of ways this is really a somewhat succinct review overview that pharmacy teams, pharmacy organizations, individual pharmacies, you know, this is something where this should be shared with your health plans, with your local community providers, with your local employers to say, hey, this is where and how pharmacies have stepped up.

00:27:05:08 - 00:27:31:16
Speaker 3
Certainly can add your own anecdotal evidence or your own information that data about what your pharmacy has done to create more of those inroads with other businesses, other health plans with patients directly. Pharmacy has been this is my personal comments or editorial pharmacy has been the backbone really of the response for for COVID 19 and the fact that we've been able to provide this many immunizations and do all these work efforts.

00:27:31:22 - 00:27:48:12
Speaker 3
John, even going into some of the items we talk about, some of the vaccine clinics early on in 2021, there were a lot of clinics that would be set up at stadiums and other sites, you know, other things like that. In many cases, that was nurses or other health care practitioners. But there certainly could have been other folks at pharmacy involved.

00:27:48:12 - 00:28:17:20
Speaker 3
That strategy eventually shifted, whereas more towards community pharmacy businesses. And certainly we can't forget about our colleagues as well in pharmacy that have been part of hospitals and health systems. Right. And had been dealing with and identifying, well, what's the therapeutic cocktail, if you will, that can help patients that have severe cases of COVID 19. So everywhere we look in this experience, pharmacy as a collective community here, I'm using pharmacy as a collective committee.

00:28:17:20 - 00:28:41:21
Speaker 3
All the pharmacies, pharmacy technicians, administrative support that work with us. It's had an immense impact and really appreciate that you've been able to collect a lot of this data, A lot of this information, if you can have really one other is if there's any other key takeaway that we haven't discussed today, is there anything else that you hope people take away in reviewing this and what what the pharmacy could do going forward?

00:28:42:13 - 00:29:17:04
Speaker 1
So couple of points. One is I made made sure to do a search and replace to make sure I was using the word pharmacist because this bears on their scope of practice. And it's not about the building, it's about it's about the professional in there. And this is about telling the story of competence. And oh, and I also went in and changed the verb I use provider and provide as often as I could as a subliminal way of, you know, this whole provider status thing to, to, to, to get that inserted.

00:29:17:13 - 00:29:40:19
Speaker 1
The final thing is we're not done. I made a graphic for AP that looks sort of like an odometer on a car or, you know, on your cell phone. You know, as you scroll thing, you scroll through the alarm function and pick your hours and your minutes. So so when I wrote the manuscript and submitted it, we were 258 million COVID vaccinations.

00:29:40:19 - 00:30:05:16
Speaker 1
When the article came out, I think we were to 70 to the end of November. It was at 292. And so we're I mean, we're in McDonald's hamburger land of, you know, we'll be at a third of a billion doses. And, you know, this is not this is not 282 doses. It's not ordering 22,000 doses. It's 282 million doses.

00:30:05:16 - 00:30:30:02
Speaker 1
I mean, it's just it's just mind boggling. And and but they were all done one at a time with great attention, with with consent, with concern and Band-Aids and alcohol swabs and and all good stuff. And it was the pharmacist touching the patient and touching in a couple of ways, the physical, tactile way, but also personally improving their health.

00:30:30:14 - 00:30:55:11
Speaker 1
And, you know, we've still got some ways to go. It's still too political a vaccine. And there's still too much hesitancy, stuff that's unfounded that we need to work through. But but who better to to work on that challenge than than the trusted person in the community? And there's still plenty of work to do, but there's really talented people all over the country that are able to do it.

00:30:55:11 - 00:31:13:24
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely true. And John, you said it really well there at the end. There's a reason I still and that we still have to cover this topic and make it a focus with our episode because it is important for our pharmacists, it's important for our pharmacy, it's important for our pharmacy teams. There is still more work to be done in these areas.

00:31:13:24 - 00:31:46:13
Speaker 3
We know it's been tense, it's been difficult. There's a lot of items that are on the plate, but this is still very much an important item that we want to continue to focus on as we continue our outreach as the most accessible health care providers, pharmacists, We are health care providers, we are public health providers. That's the key aspect of what we do and having evidence and information to back up that story that we could point to it and say that this is what the pharmacy team has been able to do when we've been empowered to have that outreach with the community.

00:31:46:18 - 00:32:08:20
Speaker 3
It has a monstrous effect. So we really appreciate every pharmacist, every pharmacy technician that has been part of this journey so far. And we're going to continue supporting those efforts as well. With that, John Brennan be wrapping up our episode today. And again, I thank you for your time. It's a busy time of the year. This is a topic I know that you're passionate about and that you'll continue to be passionate about.

00:32:09:13 - 00:32:20:20
Speaker 3
But if folks out there want to hear more from you, if they've got some follow up questions for you as it relates to this article or maybe what the next steps are, where can they find you and how can they contact you?

00:32:21:21 - 00:32:56:06
Speaker 1
Sure. First, thanks for having me on. And so one of the one of my semi-retirement jobs is that I'm the managing editor for the newsletter from Immunize.org, someone to put a plug in for all the resources that they offer. And obviously it's, you know, dot org, but you can get me my email there is John Grabenstein@immunize.org and I'm in the staff directory there somewhere and subscribe to our free newsletter and we'll send you all the latest news and practical resources every week for free.

00:32:56:12 - 00:33:04:19
Speaker 3
Excellent. That sounds great. John. Different question for you, John. Will I be seeing you at the American Pharmacists Association meeting in March of next year?

00:33:05:04 - 00:33:06:13
Speaker 1
You will in Phoenix.

00:33:07:10 - 00:33:24:18
Speaker 3
Excellent. Well, I will look forward to that. We'll definitely have to catch up with catch up there. Talk a little bit more about immunizations over a coffee or something like that. And I'm sure you'll be sharing more information with folks. And anybody that wants to talk to you at that meeting about immunizations. All right. Well, thank you, John, for the time today.

00:33:24:18 - 00:33:41:18
Speaker 3
Greatly appreciate it. And for our listening audience that has now wrapped up today's episode. So we thank you for joining us at the Quality Corner Show. And we hope with hope you listen to our next episode. Thanks for listening. And we'll be back with a new episode. Until then, we have one final message from the PQS Team.

00:33:42:10 - 00:34:03:07
Speaker 2
The Pharmacy Quality Solutions Quality Corner Show has a request for you. Our goal is to spread the word about how quality measurement can help improve health outcomes. And we need your help in sharing this podcast. Dear Friends and colleagues in the health care industry, we also want you to provide feedback, answers, questions and suggest health topics you'd like to see covered.

00:34:04:02 - 00:34:26:07
Speaker 2
If you are a health expert and you want to contribute to this show or even talk on the show, please contact us in the email info at pharmacy quality dot com. Let us know what is on your mind, what we can address so that you are fully informed. We want you to be able to provide the best care for your patients and members and we wish all of you listeners out there well.